Jane Green

[smudwhisk]

Hi Julie

I wouldn't discount that completely as not being your Sarah, she may not have wanted to own up to being so much older than David and the other issue could be who actually gave the information in the first place.   I've several ancestors whose ages dropped by quite a few years when it came to the census because they didn't want to appear to be a "baby snatcher" to use a modern phrase.  It is still possible it is her, just because your GGrandmother isn't with her may mean she perhaps was in service somewhere else and is mis-listed/indexed.

I wouldn't put it past David Adams living with someone out of wedlock, it wasn't unusual in that family, but it is always possible that he and Sarah got "together" before they were married too.

Nicola

[smudwhisk]

According to the NBI, the Sarah Ann Adams who died in 1880 in West Ham Registration District was buried at Forestgate St Emanuel on 15 May 1880 aged 56 years.

Another possible, perhaps more likely candidate bearing in mind where daughter Jane was in 1881, is the Sarah Adams death registered Dec qtr 1880 in Poplar Registration Disrict.  Again, this would explain perhaps why David was living with this brother and sister in law the next spring.

[Bryant]

Are we saying the Sarah (born Herts) that David Adams is "married to" in the 1871 census is not Sarah Green?  I don't see any evidence of a marriage 1861-1871 so do they tell fibs    the age of Sarah through the census 1851-1871 is interesting  1851=37, 1861=40, 1871=40  Sarah, how could you!

1874
June qtr 1874, Bethnal Green R.D
Sarah Green marries David Adams
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1871 census
10 Maryland Street, Stratford, West Ham, Essex
David Adams.....Head....37.......excavator..........Weeley, Essex
Sarah......".........Wife.....40.................................Herts, Hertfordshire
------------

1861 census
Clacton Road, Weeley, St Osyth, Tendring, Essex
Sarah Green.....Head....40 Widow....Laundress & Lodging.....Wales
John........".........Son......16....Agricultural Labourer...............Weeley, Essex
Octavious "........Son......13....Agricultural Labourer...............Weeley, Essex
Ann..........".......Daur......11....................................................Weeley, Essex
Jane.........".......Daur......5......................................................Weeley, Essex
David Adams...Lodger....26 Unmarried.. Woodmen.... Weeley, Essex
(David Adams is stated as being 8 years old in 1841 Weeley, Essex)
-----------

1858
Mar qtr 1858, Tendring R.D
Robert Green dies
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1851 census
Heath, Weeley, St Osyth, Tendering, Essex 
Robert Green....Head...50......Ag Lab....................Ardleigh, Essex
Sarah........".......Wife....37.....................................Bracknock, Radnorshire
John.........."........Son......6......Scholar....................Weeley, Essex
Octavis......"........Son......4......Scholar....................Weeley, Essex
Sarah A.....".......Daur......18 months......................Weeley, Essex
William Syrett...Lodger...77 Widr...Pauper Ag Lab...Lt Bentley, Essex
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1844
Mar qtr 1844, West London R.D
Sarah Watkins marries Robert Green
-------

1841
Dec qtr 1841, Tendring R.D
Elizabeth Green dies
--------

1841 census
Heath, Weeley, Tendring, St Osyth, Essex
Robert Green.......45............ag lab...............Essex
Elizabeth.."..........50.....................................Essex
/
 
John  Deeves........15.....ag lab.....................Essex
------------
 


Bryant

[Bryant]

Hello Julie

The marriage between Sarah "Watkins" and Robert Green in 1844, have you got the details? only Sarah is approx 30 years old when she marries Robert Green which might indicate she has been married before? if she has she might revert to her maiden name in 1871, doubtful but you never know.....

Sarah married in West London and hopefully there are people on rootschat that might have the info on that marriage?
If you haven't got it, a new post is required 

Bryant

[jk22]

Hello Bryant.
Thank you very much for your work on this.
I'm looking at the cc of marriage entry GRO cert and it shows Robert Green as of "full age" and Sarah Watkins is just a "-".
Robert is a "widower" and a "Farmer" and his father also Robert is a "Miller".
Sarah is a "spinster" and her father is William Watkins a "Farmer".
They are both residing in "St Bride."
My take is that they met whilst in the West London Union workhouse. 
On the 1841 census transcript i saw on FamilySearch it showed a Sarah Watkins aged 20 in the Workhouse.  I haven't seen this page as yet on FindmyPast or the ?LMArchives sites.  I'll try again on Ancestry firstly.
The witnesses to the marriage on 19 Feb 1844 in the Parish Church, St Bride's, are Alexander and Catharine McAdam.  Would they be the managers of the workhouse??
I take it that Sarah is from Wales as she gives on the 51 and 61 censuses, and that she is about 20 when she leaves.  I can only assume she is from either Radnorshire or Brecknockshire given the misleading 51 entry ie "Radnorshire, Bracknick".  There was no Bracknick in Radnorshire i have been 'told' and found for myself?
I'm not convinced that the Sarah David first married is my Sarah Watkins Green as the witness to the 1874 mg was Sarah's younger daughter and my ggrandmother, Jane Green and she is 19 which fits with her birth year being 1855.  Given the ages of her children starting with John born in 1845 (i have the GRO cert) she couldn't possily be getting away with fudging her age so much?
So this is how i stand at presnt Bryant!
Any further info most gratefully accepted!
Julie

[Bryant]

Here is Alexander & Catherine, the West London Union being the registration district, South being the sub district. Sarah if the correct one is not in any workhouse....

1841 census
2.5 St Bride Wharf, St Bride, South, West London Union, London, Middlesex
George Hodges........51......carpenter............No
Rosetta........".........25.................................Middlesex
Sarah Watkins.........20.........F.S...................No
-------------
*George Hodges appears to marry in 1844 in Islington and then has a child with his young wife Elizabeth (30 years his junior)

1841 census
King Street, St Giles In The Fields South, Finsbury, London, Middlesex
Alexd McAdam........25.....coal dealer..........Middlesex
Catherine..."..........25...............................Scotland
M James....."...........4................................Middlesex
Elizth.........."...........2................................Middlesex
Richard......."...........7 months...................Middlesex
---------------
The McAdams are still living at 49 King Street in 1851 but Alexander has a new wife in Jemima, he is still a coal dealer

Bryant

[Bryant]

Have a look at this family and see if you can find out where they came from as I haven't got time just now...(Eleanor marries in the 1840's)

1841 census
Wellington Street, St Leonard Shoreditch, Tower Hamlets, London, Middlesex
WATKINS, William.....40..............bricklayer..........W
WATKINS, Sarah.......45.......................................   
WATKINS, Ellenor......15......................................W
COURTIS, William.......35......................................   
COURTIS, Hannah......40......................................Middlesex
-----------

Bryant

[jk22]

Hello Bryant.
Thanks!
I don't see the connection with the Wellington St Watkins family - maybe extended family of Sarah's as she was only in her 20's in 1841 and bore her children into 1855 which would have been virtually impossible for the Sarah Watkins (by marriage) to have achieved.
I'm glad to get the info re the West London Union.
Are you suggesting that the McAdams were friends of Robert and Sarah at the time of the latter's marriage and hence the McAdams acting as witnesses to that marriage?  That is they were not Union workhouse managers?
I haven't as yet gone to that 1841 census as yet.
Thank you for your kind assistance.
Julie

[Bryant]

Hello Julie

My thinking was...I don't see William (father of Sarah) in Radnorshire so I was wondering if the family came to London together? William's wife's name being Sarah which makes it possible that the daughter is named after the mother, the damper being William's occupation, a farmer (noted on Sarah's marriage) as against a bricklayer but many an ag lab described himself as a farmer!

The marriage cert did not state William the father of Sarah as being deceased did it?

The McAdams may have been friends or they could have been witnesses associated to the Church but as they were man & wife I personally would opt for friends or family as a starting point....but Catherine doesn't appear to be direct family
Alexander McAdam married Catherine Langlands in 1834 St Brides

Shoreditch and West London R.D are a few minutes walk from one another


Bryant