Griffith/Smy(i)th / Dublin / Riddle Row

[thistlebay]

Hi all

I am researching my husband's family tree and have hit a brick wall (as usual).  His grandfather William Griffith married an Esther Smith c1880.  I don't know where this marriage took place but it does say on 1901 cns William is 50 and born Meath and Esther is 42 and born Dublin.  They had 9 children, the 1st born was Christopher aged 20 on 1901 cns but says he was born Belfast, yet all other children born it states in Dublin. Children were christopher, Mary Alice, Elizabeth, Nicholas, Esther, Bridget Mary, William, Patrick (who was my husband's grandfather), and John Joseph.  They were quite a wealthy family owning many properties, they lived above their clothier shop in Mary Street on 1901 but also owned a public house at 32 Benburb St.  William died between 1901 and 1911 as Esther is a widow on the 1911 but can't find his death.  I am searching for their marriage and also both of their births before I can continue to trace any more of this family.
Any help would be be appreciated
Many thanks

[shanew147]

This appears to be the family on the 1901 census :

  Griffith household - Mary St

William born in Meath, Esther in Dublin and eldest child born in Belfast c1881 - so I suppose any of those locations are possible for the marriage.

William's year of birth would be about 1851, so before the start of full civil registration, so parish records would be required to find his birth.

The family in 1911 :

  Griffith household Benburb St

Esther has entered that she has been married 28 years on that form, which would be c1883.

see : Introduction to Irish Records

I'll have a search for the marriage and get back to you...


Shane

[aghadowey]

Welcome to Rootschat. For reference here's the link to the family in 1901 census-
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/North_City/Mary_Street/1333081
Son Christopher's birthplace is listed as 'Belfast' and in 1911 census as 'Belfast City'-
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/North_Dock/Gloucester_Street__Upper/30231

Both William and Esther were born before the start of birth registration so there will be no civil certificate but you'd need to search for their baptisms in church records.

In the 1911 census Esther is widowed but the census details were (fortunately) filled out incorrectly and it says married 28 years.

See that while I've been typing Shane has found the same details.

[shanew147]

possible marriage references from the BMD Index :

 Name: William Griffith
 Registration district: Dublin North
 Event type: Marriage
 Quarter and year: Jul-Sep 1880
 Volume : 2 / page: 437

 Name: Esther Smith
 [same details as William]

for details on ordering a marriage cert see  :

 Ordering Certs from GRO Roscommon
    also
 Details included on a Marriage Cert

 
Shane

[thistlebay]

Many thanks to you both for your speedy replies

I think I'll order that marriage cert and see what it comes back as, it just worries me for that date.......
a.  Christopher was born 1881 (thats not so bad)!
b.  I can't find a birth for Esther Smith at all on BMD between 1850 and 1864.  Only one I can find is for 1865 but this would mean she would only have been 15 when she married and 16 when she had her first child. I'm wondering if she was born outside of Ireland???

Hopefully the marriage cert (if its correct will give me the info i need)

Thanks again
Cath

[shanew147]

....
b.  I can't find a birth for Esther Smith at all on BMD between 1850 and 1864.  Only one I can find is for 1865 but this would mean she would only have been 15 when she married and 16 when she had her first child. ...
...

Esther is listed as age 42 on the 1901 census return, so about 1859, which is before the start of Full Civil registration (1864) - so she will not be included in the BMD Index.

As with William, parish records will be required to locate her baptism. Some Dublin parish records for Dublin are available on www.irishgenealogy.ie , but note that these concentrate on records for the city area. Esther lists her place of birth as Co. Dublin on the 1901 return, although she has Dublin City on the 1911 return.



Shane

[thistlebay]

Thanks again Shane,

but it does say on the 1911 cns that she is 47!!! its so confusing!
so this would mean she was born 1864.  Still very young to be married in 1880!  I wonder if she married in Northern Ireland and thats why christopher was born there.

cath

[shanew147]

my guess is the 1901 census ages are more accurate... many people have incorrect ages on census returns, and from what I've seen younger people give more accurate ages. One member of my family underestimated her age by nearly 10 years on one census, and another person overestimated an age by nearly the same amount... ages of grand-children living in the same houses were spot on.

I'd wait for the marriage cert and then start checking for further details of her family. Hopefully the cert with show her father with an unusual name with a traceable occupation.

More records (mostly RC) for Dublin are due to be added to the IrishGenealogy website later in the year, so maybe her family will show up there.


Shane

[thistlebay]

Thanks Shane

Will order the cert and go from there, will keep you posted and thanks again

cath