Copland/Smith Marriage around 1812-6

[iwccc]

Thanks for this suggestion tiki,  I will try Scotlands people

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Good ideaJefferey,  will try and check out if any wills have been left.  Appreciate your help

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Thanks cider drinker,  My issue is trying to prove that William Copland's father was William Grey Copland. or was it just William Copland?   I appreciate your help.

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Thanks hmcc , I had missed that census.  I appreciate your help

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Hi Forfarian,  I found that specific phrase from the Old Parish Regiter 821/30244 Dumfries page 294 of 444 National Records of Scotland.  thanks for your help

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Thanks again Forfarian,  Lots of encouraging points.  I appreciate your clear thinking and deductions. This has helped tremendously.

[Forfarian]

Glad it was useful.

What follows is a bit of speculation.

I see that there are several baptisms of children of John Coupland in Kirkmahoe
John, baptised 16 September 1783
William Grey, 1 January 1786
James, 22 April 1791
Francis, 3 April 1793
Mary, 22 October 1797
Jean, 23 February 1800, mother's name Helen Sloan
Thomas, 25 December 1802, mother's name Nelly Sloan

I also note with interest a marriage of John Copland to Helen Sloane in Lochrutton on 18 November 1781.

And there are deaths of James Copland, aged 77, mother's surname Sloan, in Tinwald in 1868 and Francis Coupland, aged 66, mother's surname Slowan, in Mouswald in 1859.

It therefore occurs to me to wonder whether all of these children are siblings?

And is Jane Copland, who died in Morton in 1869 aged 68, perhaps one of them? I can't see obvious candidates for John, Thomas or Mary, but there are some possibles if their ages were not recorded accurately.

If you are interested in following this up, you could take a look at those death certificates and see if they are indeed children of John Co(u)pland and Helen/Nelly Sloan. If they are, I think they would point to William Grey Co(u)pland's mother being Helen Sloan.

And if so, it might be worth looking at the baptisms to see whether the names of any witnesses provide any useful clues to the parentage of John Co(u)pland and Helen Sloan.

[Forfarian]

So far I have William  .... and he is recorded as being 'the lawful son of William and Agnes Copland.

Actually, no, it doesn't say that. What the register says is Baptised .... 1817 .... June .... 29. William lawful son of William Copland and Agnes Smith, born 1817 .... 29 June. (My underlining).

This tells me that even though there is no surviving record of the marriage, the Session Clerk knew (or believed) that they were legally married.

It also tells me that any supposed index listing of this baptism that gives a different (or no) surname for Agnes is incorrect and should be disregarded.

[iwccc]

Thanks Forfarian, Once again you have clarified the details.  Much appreciated.