Author Topic: Copland/Smith Marriage around 1812-6  (Read 5408 times)

Offline iwccc

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 575
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Which Coupland Branch?
« Reply #9 on: Friday 06 March 20 11:36 GMT (UK) »
I am just about at my wits end. For some years have been trying to take the family tree back a generation or two.  My present dilemma is which William do I follow.  So far I have William  (hairdresser) born 1817 (m to Christina Bell and Fanny McKinnell) and he is recorded as being 'the lawful son of William and Agnes Copland).  I have found lots of Coplands/Couplands that have an Agnes married to a William.  How can I discern which one is my line?  I need someone with a clear head - my head feels like it is full of cotton wool at present.  Help please?  I am at the point of giving up and finishing the family tree in the early 1800's......but it would be great to take it back further.

Offline ciderdrinker

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,054
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Which Coupland Branch?
« Reply #10 on: Saturday 07 March 20 14:47 GMT (UK) »
Hi
Not my family but there is a tree on Ancestry with a baptism at Dumfries whihc matches place of birth on census
William Coupland 29.6.1817 s of William Grey Coupland and Agnes.
Various surnames given for Agnes.
Haven't got the time to look it up as my computer at the Library about to click off
Maybe that could help?

Ciderdrinker

Offline hmcc

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 128
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Which Coupland Branch?
« Reply #11 on: Saturday 07 March 20 15:22 GMT (UK) »
William Copland born 29/6/1817 at Dumfries has William Copland(f) and Agnes Smith (m) on SP.
hmcc

Online Forfarian

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 15,086
  • http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ruz/
    • View Profile
Re: Which Coupland Branch?
« Reply #12 on: Saturday 07 March 20 15:42 GMT (UK) »
I have William  (hairdresser) born 1817 (m to Christina Bell and Fanny McKinnell) and he is recorded as being 'the lawful son of William and Agnes Copland).
Where did you find that specific phrase?

Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.


Offline hmcc

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 128
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Which Coupland Branch?
« Reply #13 on: Saturday 07 March 20 15:48 GMT (UK) »
1851 census- William Copland (32) born Georgetown, Dumfries, Hairdresser, widower. Lodger in household of Elizabeth Lawson, St.Andrews Street, Castle Douglas. Christina Copland (6) born Glasgow, Lanarks.
hmcc.

Online Forfarian

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 15,086
  • http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ruz/
    • View Profile
Re: Which Coupland Branch?
« Reply #14 on: Saturday 07 March 20 16:32 GMT (UK) »
No wonder there is confusion about this.

There are three existing threads asking similar questions about the same family
Threads merged.

From one of these I see that William Co(u)pland died in 1893, and that his death certificate says that his parents were William Co(u)pland and Agnes Smith. Does it say 'Agnes Co(u)pland MS Smith' or simply 'Agnes Smith'? And who was the informant? This matches the baptism on 29 June 1817 so I think it is safe enough to say that it is the same person. Have you seen the original baptism record? What does it say?

From another of these threads you say that you have the death certificate of William Co(u)pland who died in 1863, saying that his father's name was John and his mother's name was Agnes Co(u)pland. What is the name of his wife according to that certificate? And who was the informant? How exactly is his mother's name recorded?

An IGI listing is not to be trusted. Contrary to what it claims, it is not a record, it is an index listing. The one you have found is submitted, not indexed from an original record, so it is useful as a finding aid but cannot be relied on to be accurate. I see that is gives a marriage date of 1812, not on a specific date in that year or in a specific parish, which would have been stated if it had been indexed from an original document. There is no corresponding marriage record on Scotland's People. You need to track down the source of this marriage record to find out whether it actually exists and is not a guesstimate by the person who submitted it.

The index listing on SP of the death of William Co(u)pland in 1863 says he was 77. If that is accurate, that means that he was born some time in 1785 or 1786. The 1861 census says he was 75. That also implies a birth in 1785 or 1786. It also says that he was born in Kirkmahoe. The 1851 census says he was 65 and born in Kirkmahoe. All these pieces of information point to him being born in Kirkmahoe in 1785 or 1786.

There is a baptism of William Grey Coupland, son of John Coupland, in Kirkmahoe on 1 January 1786, who exactly matches the information you have about William Co(u)pland who died in 1863. Do you have any reason (other than the unreliable index listing in the IGI) to think that this William Grey Coupland is not the one you are looking for?
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Online Forfarian

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 15,086
  • http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ruz/
    • View Profile
Re: Which Coupland Branch?
« Reply #15 on: Saturday 07 March 20 16:35 GMT (UK) »
Not my family but there is a tree on Ancestry with a baptism at Dumfries whihc matches place of birth on census
William Coupland 29.6.1817 s of William Grey Coupland and Agnes.
Various surnames given for Agnes.
Why flap about speculating about a tree on Inaccuracy when there is an original record on Scotland's People for the baptism of William Coupland, giving his mother's name as Agnes Smith?
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline iwccc

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 575
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Copland/Smith Marriage around 1812-6
« Reply #16 on: Tuesday 10 March 20 23:40 GMT (UK) »
thanks GR2 - good suggestions - I will follow up thanks again

Offline iwccc

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 575
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Copland/Smith Marriage around 1812-6
« Reply #17 on: Tuesday 10 March 20 23:48 GMT (UK) »
Thanks ev,  I cannot get into the link you posted - it says 'server error'.   I appreciate your help