Author Topic: Scottish/Spanish ties  (Read 18006 times)

Offline Skoosh

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,736
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Scottish/Spanish ties
« Reply #18 on: Monday 13 August 12 09:38 BST (UK) »
chris,  some Black Isle Mackenzie's here,    http://www.mackenziefamilytree.com/scotland.html

Mucho Suerte,

Skoosh.

Offline Rena

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 4,804
  • Crown Copyright: www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Scottish/Spanish ties
« Reply #19 on: Monday 13 August 12 13:19 BST (UK) »
sometimes there's a grain of truth in these old family stories and it's possible that a conscripted soldier or sailor or merchant could have brought back a wife and family from foreign lands - and I believe in some countries (such as Italy) girls take maternal line surnames, which in the UK would be rather confusing.

If you look at the "historical directory" website you'll see that large towns in the 1800s had an unbelievable number of foreign consulates - something you don't see nowadays.

Scotland historically has a tie between Queen Mary of Scots and King Philip of Spain so it's possible that the story might have travelled down several centuries.   Advancing into the 17th century where we traded around the world, there was a spice war between the Scots, Portuguese, Spanish and English with Dutch involvement. 

Out of curiosity I did a search for: Mendosa @ http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue:-
 
<<Notes for the examination of William Crightone, Jesuit, about 12,000 crowns delivered to the Jesuit Claude de Lorrayne; complaint about him to the duke of Guise by Thomas Morgayn that Crightone was an agent of the Queen of Scots. His intercepted letters into Scotland and to Bernardo de Mendosa; [year 1584].>>
Aberdeen: Findlay-Shirras,McCarthy: MidLothian: Mason,Telford,Darling,Cruikshanks,Bennett,Sime, Bell: Lanarks:Crum, Brown, MacKenzie,Cameron, Glen, Millar; Ross: Urray:Mackenzie:  Moray: Findlay; Marshall/Marischell: Perthshire: Brown Ferguson: Wales: McCarthy, Thomas: England: Almond, Askin, Dodson, Well(es). Harrison, Maw, McCarthy, Munford, Pye, Shearing, Smith, Smythe, Speight, Strike, Wallis/Wallace, Ward, Wells;Germany: Flamme,Ehlers, Bielstein, Germer, Mohlm, Reupke

Offline chrislb

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 238
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Scottish/Spanish ties
« Reply #20 on: Monday 13 August 12 13:34 BST (UK) »
hm... interesting...

Offline hdw

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,028
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Scottish/Spanish ties
« Reply #21 on: Monday 13 August 12 13:40 BST (UK) »
I don't know about Mary Queen of Scots and Philip of Spain, but Queen Mary I of England, "Bloody Mary" to her detractors, married Prince Philip of Spain.

A lot of misconceptions about Scottish families and surnames are down to parish ministers and schoolmasters. You know the saying that "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing!" In my corner of East Fife, the surname Gosman was held by some to be from Spanish Guzmán, another legacy of the Armada, but name-experts agree that in Britain it means the 'goose man', the man who looked after the geese. How boring!

Harry


Offline chrislb

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 238
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Scottish/Spanish ties
« Reply #22 on: Monday 13 August 12 13:43 BST (UK) »
Interestingly, my own Irish ancestry has a tale that our 'Torrens' clan is descended from Armada shipwreck survivors... Spanish of course... but so far no real evidence :) only 'family story' and the fact that the name 'Torrens' is/could be the same as the Spanish 'Torrence' or perhaps Torres??? hm...

Offline hdw

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,028
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Scottish/Spanish ties
« Reply #23 on: Monday 13 August 12 13:58 BST (UK) »
Torrance is not uncommon in Scotland and presumably derives from the village of that name in East Dunbartonshire. I suppose the golfer Sam Torrance is the most famous bearer of the name at present.

Harry

Offline Forfarian

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 15,083
  • http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ruz/
    • View Profile
Re: Scottish/Spanish ties
« Reply #24 on: Monday 13 August 12 17:59 BST (UK) »
Firstly, the lady in question's name was, according to 'legend', Elizabetta Mendosa
She married in London, by the way, in Middlesex 1844. 

Not a survivor of the Armada, then  ;)
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline Forfarian

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 15,083
  • http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ruz/
    • View Profile
Re: Scottish/Spanish ties
« Reply #25 on: Monday 13 August 12 18:02 BST (UK) »
Interestingly, my own Irish ancestry has a tale that our 'Torrens' clan is descended from Armada shipwreck survivors... Spanish of course... but so far no real evidence :) only 'family story' and the fact that the name 'Torrens' is/could be the same as the Spanish 'Torrence' or perhaps Torres??? hm...

According to G F Black's Surnames of Scotland the surname Torrance is of territorial origin from either Torrance in Stirlingshire (that'll be the one in the newfangled 'East Dunbartonshire' but if you're doing historical research you need to know which historic county it's in) or Torrance in East Kilbride.
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline hdw

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,028
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Scottish/Spanish ties
« Reply #26 on: Monday 13 August 12 18:50 BST (UK) »
Firstly, the lady in question's name was, according to 'legend', Elizabetta Mendosa
She married in London, by the way, in Middlesex 1844. 

Not a survivor of the Armada, then  ;)

Well, Sam certainly has dark good looks, as do many Scotsmen (but not this one).

Harry