Scottish/Spanish ties

[chrislb]

Hi,

Owing to a 'family mystery' (for want of a better way to put it) I have question - how much interaction, historically speaking, have Scotland and Spain, or maybe Portugal, had??  Would there have been any 'mixed' marriages??? pre 1850??

Long story short, an ancestor of my husband was supposed to have been Spanish (family story) but all census records I have found for her indicate that she was from Scotland, Cromarty to be more precise.... is there a chance that somewhere in her ancestry, not too far back though, maybe a parent or grandparent, one was Spanish, or even Portugese??

Any ideas?? Help??

Thanks!!!

Chris in Aus!!

[KGarrad]

Possibly from a survivor of The Spanish Armada?

The Armada attempted to escape the English fleet by sailing up the east coast, and around the north of Scotland, then down the west coast of Ireland.
But many of their sips were shipwrecked along the way.

There are stories, here in the Isle of Man, of Spanish survivors assimilating into local society. Apparently this is the origin of the local boy's name Juan (pronounced Jew-Ann)?!

But family stories have to be taken with a pinch of salt!
My family story was of French links - but closest I have found is G-G-Grandfather who was born on Jersey!!

[chrislb]

Hm, the Spanish Armada... I hadn't thought of that Although I thought that they were shipwrecked on the coast of Ireland....

According to Wikipedia, that occured in 1588... so perhaps a little too early for any significantly, um, obvious, Spanish heritage to still be apparent in the 1800's. The lady in question was supposed to be obviously Spanish...

Would you know of any records that might confirm this?? 

[MonicaL]

Hi Chris

Hard period for you to be definite about unfortunately  Your main records are the ones you are probably looking at: census, BMDs.

Why was this ancestor supposed to be of Spanish origin? The way she looked and sounded (latin) or simply the story that she was born abroad?

Without knowing anything about her parents, one possibility that you can see coming up could be that father was army and posted abroad and some children born there.

How far have you got in tracing her lineage?

Monica

[aghadowey]

Think Army connection would be worth considering. Have you found her father's occupation in any records yet?
What about birthplaces of siblings?
Do any other branches of the family have the same/similar story about Spanish roots?

[1pds]

There is an Armada connection with Fair Isle.  The flagship of the Spanish Armada, El Gran Grifon, was shipwrecked there on 20 August 1588. It was a long time since my last visit (early 90s) but I seem to remember that there was a few graves or some sort of monument there?

I know it's a long shot - but don't discount it as Cromarty is easily reached by sea from Fair Isle.  

[1pds]

Afterthought:  Is it worth entering your ancestor's surname into Scotland's People and see if there are any Fair Isle connections?   

[chrislb]

Thanks all.

Firstly, the lady in question's name was, according to 'legend', Elizabetta Mendosa, from what I have been told she may have looked Spanish?? Don't quote me on that though! There is/was a portrait of a lady in Spanish garb (mantilla etc) who is supposed to have been her daughter, I think...must check that!!

However, according to her marriage certificate her name was Elizabeth Mackenzie!!  Her father's occupation was Stoneman, his name was James Mackenzie but the certificate doesn't state whether he was deceased or not when she married.  She married in London, by the way, in Middlesex 1844.  No information about siblings of hers... I only have her name and possible birthyear, although she was a few years older than her husband when they married... however, her death year and age at death (69 years in 1877) places her birthyear as being c1808. All census records have her as being from Scotland, one mentions Cromarty.  Also, the census records indicate her as being born c1815. Also, these census records show her and her family (husband and child) as being in London in 1851, and Sussex in 1861 when the child was supposed to have been in a convent in Spain...  long long story...

So anyway, this is my husband's family and his sisters refuse to accept the census and marriage records as being .. correct... lol so I thought I might try to see if there is any other explanation for Elizabeth to be Spanish... or having Spanish ancestry!!

I have only got as far back as her marriage in 1844.  There is a possibility that I have found her in England in 1841, the name and age fits, but can't be certain of course.

Assuming that she was born in Cromarty c1808 I have found a birth record for an Elizabeth Mackenzie born in 1807 to possible parents James Mackenzie and Margaret Mackenzie nee Bain.  Can't confirm this of course but it's the most likely one so far....

Cheers!!

[Skoosh]

chris, there are former fisher folk on the other side of the Cromarty Firth who are a bit on the swarthy side and claim Spanish ancestry, but no evidence offered by the Don I spoke to.
 For an insight into life in Cromarty, Hugh Miller, a native, wrote "Scenes & Legends" , his traditional history of the port. A letter to the wee museum at Hugh Miller's Cottage in Cromarty might yield something. Opportunity for population mix was much more likely in a seaport than an inland district.

Skoosh.