BRECK, THOR MATTISON - Possible to snap pic. of grave in Hillsborough, Auckland?

[Magne]

Maybe we can see drawings of the device? We will see :-)


Magne

[TwiggyTree]

Are you saying Magne, that if Thor is your man, that he came to New Zealand; having already had a family in Sweden?

What timeline the timeline of events for these men do you have?

[Janette]

Hi Magne,

I have tracked down the place where more detailed records are kept for the Hillsborough cemetery and will endeavour ro get into the city next week and search them for you.
Unfortunately the sexton's office that held the Hillsborough records has been shut.
I viewed the burial book but all it had for Thor's plot was his name and age,the lady said someone else had been in yesterday asking for details for Thor as well.

Cheers Janette

[Magne]

Hello Janette. Thank you for your reply.

I have had help as you were informed, and I here share all the info I have. I am ready to answer all questions and hope you may have some ideas. And I of course hope that it wil be possible to uncover Thor's precise position:

Quoting and Paraphrasing:
The cemetery was closed in 1974

On the cemetery sketch the nice people who helped me were able to establish where area 3 was and row R is. See attached map. Unfortunately in this area there were only a few actual grave stones and a few  were unreadable.
 
If you go to Google maps and enter 255 Hillsborogh Road, Hillsborough, Auckland, New Zealand
the cemetery is on the other side of the road. If you scan down Goodall St you will come across
two paths leading into the cemetery the first shows a vertical line and the second a horizontal
line into the cemetery. On the horizontal line between the vertical line and the road it shows
bottom of the path a line of three trees a gap and then 4 trees. The gap from the path downwards is row/block R.

See attched photo with grids. I have more photos also. Thor thought to be approx  8-N / 8-O .

Both rows shown on the photo are part of block R. Thor thought to be third from the end of the row shown on the left side of the picture (see grid reference photo). There is no way of proving this as the area is very steep and covered in scrub and trees.
 
The people who helped me went to the Waikumete Cemetery in West Auckland, they have a good records office. They were able to provide a large printout of the page Thor is listed on. But still Thor's grave was not found after a second visit.

In the picture you see some trees in that background and the ground falls away quite steeply to a gully. The people who helped me believe the position of his grave is slightly before the trees, right on the edge. They searched quite a wide area of headstones and none were for him. Many graves are unmarked. Sadly the records are not as accurate as one might hope. They are a little out of sequence and muddled. Even the lady in the records office was not too sure of the exact spot for Thor's grave.     

From the record office they were given a printout of a page from  the old book recording the names of the  deceased for that little segment  -  but were unable to find one name off the page to tally with any headstone there. I will get this printout in the mail in about a week.

If they had been able to find just one headstone to match what we had on paper they could maybe have used that for a baring and been more able to exactly pinpoint Thor's position.  But this was not the case.

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts!

Magne

[Magne]

Hello, TwiggyTree!

Yes, if Thor Matison Breck (various spellings) is Martin Toreson's (various spellings) father, he already had a son in Sweden. But Thor never lived with Martin and the mother.

I here give a timeline. Don't know if you wanted references? Additional details are also available.  Just let me know

1852 - Thor is born in Sweden
1874 - Martin is born in Sweden close to Norwegian border, father listed as Thor Matson (don't have the exact spelling here), baker's apprentice in Fredrikshall (modern name Halden) which is a town in Norway just across the border.
1875 - Thor Matison Breck moves to same general area in Norway. Trail goes cold.
Beginning of 1880s - Martin and mother moves to Norway.
1890 - Thor's mother dies. Thor's whereabouts are "unknown"
1893 - Thor Matison Breck naturalised citizen of New Zealand.

My grandmother who is living knows next to nothing about her grandfather Thor. That could fit in well with the life of Thor Matisson Breck

[TwiggyTree]

Now I see what you have got to work with - not easy.


I can only compare with the Danish research I have done...but the two anomalies that I would have in this story is that Thor (NZ) has 3 names; and the surname is MATSON on the birth information for Martin and not BRECK.

Is that what you are thinking too?


If Thor (NZ) is your grandmother's grandfather, then Thor (NZ) would need to have been married and had a child.  That child would then be your grandmother's parent.  Does your grandmother know where her parent's were born/raised?  [I presume that your grandmother is in Norway]. 

I guess the story could go that Thor (NZ) was married to a Scandanavian when he came out, then he died and she moved back 'home' hence going 'full circle' back to Norway or wherever.


For the record I can't see a birth for a child to Thor (NZ).


Fingers crossed that the probate helps you make/break the connection then!

[Janette]

Hi Magne,

The staff at Waikumete have only had the Hillsborough and Waikaraka cemetery records since November,prior to that they were held at the office at Waikaraka where the ladies knew Hillsborough so well.
I noticed the grave next to Thor had multiple burials in it.
The book at Waikumete is the burial register with all the plots marked as small rectangles with the occupants name written in them,there is also a cemetery register which usually has more detail like name, age, last place of residence,place of death,funeral director,next of kin,length of time in NZ etc,this register and also a register with the name of the person who purchased the plot is held in Auckland City,I hope to get in to the city next week and search both these registers for you.

Cheers Janette

[Magne]

TwiggyTree:

The names of Thor is as you say one possible issue. At least in Norway it wouldn't necessarily be significant since farm names like Breck (various spellings) were both included or excluded from entries like baptisms etc.

Martin was born in Sweden, and I don't know as much about the recording practices there.

Martin was born out of wedlock. I have no info on Thor Matison Breck or Martin's father (two real persons who may have been the same person) ever being married or having (other) children.

We have all the details about my grandmother's father Martin's life from birth in Sweden, his moving to Norway and living there.

As you say, this is not easy

[Magne]

Hi Janette:

I have a printout from Deaths in the District of Auckland from the

Births, Deaths and Marriages Office -Department of Internal Affairs

See attachment.

If convenient for you, I will happily receive all copies and files you may find.

Looking forward to hearing from you.

Cheers

Magne