Author Topic: Staffordshire Travellers  (Read 19240 times)

Offline panished

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Re: Staffordshire Travellers
« Reply #54 on: Friday 07 January 22 20:21 GMT (UK) »
Staffordshire Sentinel and Commercial & General Advertiser - 03 May 1879
 
—W. Nield, alias Billy Button, a notorious character, was charged by Herbert Preston, landlord the White Lion Inn, Uttoxeter, with refusing quit……………….   

     
Derby Mercury - 08 May 1878
 
STEAING A BUN.-William Nield, alias Billy Button, was charged with stealing a bun from the shop of a confectioner, at Uttoxeter. It appeared from the evidence that complainant, on hearing someone in the shop, found the defendant, who is a notorious character, putting a bun in his pocket. she made him replace the bun, and he then abused her in a shameful manner, and her son had to fight the defendant before he would go away……………….   
 
Staffordshire Sentinel and Commercial & General Advertiser - 22 April 1876
 
UTTOXETER.  A Warning  to Street Brawlers William Nield, alias Billy Button, was charged by Inspector Fetiner with having been drunk and disorderly at Uttoxeter, On the first occasion he was drunk, and fighting with a man in the Market-place, and when C. Berber attempted to arrest him, be attacked him furiously, and tore his beard. He was so violent that he had to be carried to the station. On the second occasion, he was drunk and disorderly in the High street, and was arrested by P.C. Winn ……………..   

      so you can see there are lots of "billy buttons" down through the years, including the famous William Nield, but i wonder what is the origin of the fictional billy button. 

Offline panished

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Re: Staffordshire Travellers
« Reply #55 on: Friday 07 January 22 20:49 GMT (UK) »
 
posted by MeirSoul

"Surely these Hodgkin's/ Hodgkinson/ Hodgkin's families must be one and the same . The names repeatedly appear in the local area marrying into the same families over and over again . The Hodgkinsons and Neilds seem to of intermarried on more than one occasion.  John Neild and Sarah Hodgkinson and Marie Hodgkin's (grundy) (who I think was Sarah's sister)  also married a Neild".
 
posted by Garen

"I hurt my brain attempting to actually connect up these families - it may not be possible to find exactly how they are all connected - and, as I'm sure you know, it's dangerous to make assumptions. Sometimes an 'Eliza Hodgkin's' may seem to be attached to one family, and then some obscure source will reveal she's actually connected to another - and often there is no source to help us find our way, so we just have to leave a question-mark for now.

The 'origin', or connecting person, will certainly never be found, but any Hodgkin's/Hodgkinson/Hodgkin's/etc 'of Cheslyn Hay' or 'of Wyrley Bank' seems to be one of the main identifiers - some dating back into the 1730s and 40s described as travellers. One early family is Arthur Hodgkin's and Sarah ('travelling people', 'vagrants'), but there are others who could be siblings or cousins, so there are further generations in the fog, with records sparse or nonexistent.

I agree that Sarah Hodgkinson who married John Nield and Maria Hodgkinson who married Thomas Nield - John's brother - are sisters. I believe their parents are William Hodgkinson and Elizabeth Mear. William and Elizabeth were married in Lichfield and probably had two children there, in Greenhill, before moving to Uttoxeter. John Nield later married Sarah Hust, which can confuse his two Sarah's for some.

John and Sarah Nield had a son William who died in 1854. The informant on his death is Sarah Mitchell, nιe Sarah Grundy, next-door neighbour to William & Elizabeth Hodgkinson and older sister of the John Grundy who married Maria Hodgkin's, and she then Thomas Nield.

I think there's enough circumstantial evidence to say that William Hodgkinson was the son of William Hodgkinson and Eleanor Young (m.1785). While William married Elizabeth Mear, another son, Edward, married Sarah Mayer - I think a sister of Elizabeth, and daughters of Obadiah Mayer and Sarah Blewer.

Obadiah had children who married into the Gypsy Florence family, the Bloods, and probably the Nields too. A grandson, Thomas Mayer, married Rhoda Johnson, daughter of Thomas Johnson and Jane Hodgkinson - and this Hodgkinson line leads us back to Thomas and Joan, parents of a number of travelling Hodgkin's who married Sherriffs, Claytons and Hollands, and whose probable sibling, Edward, takes us to the Warwickshire Hodgkin's families (Tracey Emin a famous descendant). DNA links confirm the connection.

A daughter of Edward Hodgkinson and Sarah Mayer, Eleanor, married another Johnson sibling, Joseph, and one of their children married into the Hollands. I also think Edward and Sarah Hodgkinson are the Edward and Sarah who are the witnesses of the marriage of William Sherriff and Tresi Boswell, daughter of Anselo, in 1832 in Rugeley, the same year Eleanor was born in the that town.

So much of the enjoyment of researching these families is the thousands of connections that keep coming up, but it's like an endless piece of string full of knots - sometimes you manage to undo them and find you've suddenly two or three pieces instead of one!"
 

 Garen, thank you for taking the time to write up and explain the information that you have researched, it clears clouds from the sky, you must of spent many years researching, all your relatives of the future years will expand on your research and know that they stand on the shoulder of giants like yourself and the good people who have helped you along the way .. well done Garen.


I found these two articles below, contained in them are the life and times of these peoples, maybe its one of the reasons researchers find that "endless piece of string full of knots - sometimes you manage to undo them and find you've suddenly two or three pieces instead of one".
If you read into these two articles you will see how they do not follow the norm, as in what would be easy to find through records as in if they did follow the norm.

Uttoxeter Advertiser and Ashbourne Times - 23 August 1911
   
Affiliation.
Harriet Brassington of Smithfield road Uttoxeter, applied for an affiliation order against James Bloor (18), Smithfield-road, Uttoxeter, in respect of her illegitimate child, born on February 29 last.
Defendant admitted responsibility, and an order of 2s. a week was made………….

Wellington Journal - 16 July 1898
 
TENBURY. A Serious Charge.—At the Police Court Monday, Richard Hodgkin's, aged 51. a tramping scissors grinder, was charged with unlawfully and maliciously wounding Sarah Hudson, a woman with whom he cohabits. with, it appeared from the evidence of witnesses that the two were proceeding from the Old Wood Saturday afternoon, when, in course of an altercation. prisoner struck the woman at the back of the head with a frying pan. causing a severe wound, from which she bled a great deal When charged by the police, prisoner said he was in a temper when he did it. The woman was removed to the Workhouse Infirmary, and Dr. Boss stated that she was very weak from the loss of blood…………………..   

Offline MeirSoul

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Re: Staffordshire Travellers
« Reply #56 on: Saturday 08 January 22 17:18 GMT (UK) »
Staffordshire Sentinel and Commercial & General Advertiser - 03 May 1879
 
—W. Nield, alias Billy Button, a notorious character, was charged by Herbert Preston, landlord the White Lion Inn, Uttoxeter, with refusing quit……………….   

     
Derby Mercury - 08 May 1878
 
STEAING A BUN.-William Nield, alias Billy Button, was charged with stealing a bun from the shop of a confectioner, at Uttoxeter. It appeared from the evidence that complainant, on hearing someone in the shop, found the defendant, who is a notorious character, putting a bun in his pocket. she made him replace the bun, and he then abused her in a shameful manner, and her son had to fight the defendant before he would go away……………….   
 
Staffordshire Sentinel and Commercial & General Advertiser - 22 April 1876
 
UTTOXETER.  A Warning  to Street Brawlers William Nield, alias Billy Button, was charged by Inspector Fetiner with having been drunk and disorderly at Uttoxeter, On the first occasion he was drunk, and fighting with a man in the Market-place, and when C. Berber attempted to arrest him, be attacked him furiously, and tore his beard. He was so violent that he had to be carried to the station. On the second occasion, he was drunk and disorderly in the High street, and was arrested by P.C. Winn ……………..   

      so you can see there are lots of "billy buttons" down through the years, including the famous William Nield, but i wonder what is the origin of the fictional billy button.

Id heard of William Neild as Billy Button but not all the others.  I wonder what it means
Halket- longton Stoke on Trent / Banff Scotland
Cooke - Meir/Longton Stoke on Trent
Emery- Meir/ Longton Stoke-on-Trent
Shaw - Birmingham
Leese - Longton/ Fenton/Stoke-on-Trent
Neild/Nield/Neeld/Neald- Uttoxeter/ Abbots bromley
Hodgkinson/Hodgkins - Uttoxeter/Hanbury/Lichfield/Rugeley/Abbots bromley
Brassington - Uttoxeter
Thorley - Stoke on Trent
Mears -Wetley Rocks/Longton Stoke on Trent
Breeze- Hanley/Longton/Stoke-on-Trent/Staffordshire/Shropshire
Burton - Uttoxeter

Offline MeirSoul

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Re: Staffordshire Travellers
« Reply #57 on: Saturday 08 January 22 17:22 GMT (UK) »
Surely these Hodgkins/ Hodgkinson/ Hodgkiss families must be one and the same . The names repeatedly appear in the local area marrying into the same families over and over again . The Hodgkinsons and Neilds seem to of intermarried on more than one occasion.  John Neild and Sarah Hodgkinson and Marie Hodgkins (grundy) (who I think was Sarah's sister)  also married a Neild.

I hurt my brain attempting to actually connect up these families - it may not be possible to find exactly how they are all connected - and, as I'm sure you know, it's dangerous to make assumptions. Sometimes an 'Eliza Hodgkins' may seem to be attached to one family, and then some obscure source will reveal she's actually connected to another - and often there is no source to help us find our way, so we just have to leave a question-mark for now.

The 'origin', or connecting person, will certainly never be found, but any Hodgkins/Hodgkinson/Hodgkiss/etc 'of Cheslyn Hay' or 'of Wyrley Bank' seems to be one of the main identifiers - some dating back into the 1730s and 40s described as travellers. One early family is Arthur Hodgkins and Sarah ('travelling people', 'vagrants'), but there are others who could be siblings or cousins, so there are further generations in the fog, with records sparse or non-existant.

I agree that Sarah Hodgkinson who married John Nield and Maria Hodgkinson who married Thomas Nield - John's brother - are sisters. I believe their parents are William Hodgkinson and Elizabeth Mear. William and Elizabeth were married in Lichfield and probably had two children there, in Greenhill, before moving to Uttoxeter. John Nield later married Sarah Hust, which can confuse his two Sarahs for some.

John and Sarah Nield had a son William who died in 1854. The informant on his death is Sarah Mitchell, nιe Sarah Grundy, next-door neighbour to William & Elizabeth Hodgkinson and older sister of the John Grundy who married Maria Hodgkins, and she then Thomas Nield.

I think there's enough circumstantial evidence to say that William Hodgkinson was the son of William Hodgkinson and Eleanor Young (m.1785). While William married Elizabeth Mear, another son, Edward, married Sarah Mayer - I think a sister of Elizabeth, and daughters of Obadiah Mayer and Sarah Blewer.

Obadiah had children who married into the Gypsy Florence family, the Bloods, and probably the Nields too. A grandson, Thomas Mayer, married Rhoda Johnson, daughter of Thomas Johnson and Jane Hodgkinson - and this Hodgkinson line leads us back to Thomas and Joan, parents of a number of travelling Hodgkins who married Sherriffs, Claytons and Hollands, and whose probable sibling, Edward, takes us to the Warwickshire Hodgkins families (Tracey Emin a famous descendant). DNA links confirm the connection.

A daughter of Edward Hodgkinson and Sarah Mayer, Eleanor, married another Johnson sibling, Joseph, and one of their children married into the Hollands. I also think Edward and Sarah Hodgkinson are the Edward and Sarah who are the witnesses of the marriage of William Sherriff and Tresi Boswell, daughter of Anselo, in 1832 in Rugeley, the same year Eleanor was born in the that town.

So much of the enjoyment of researching these families is the thousands of connections that keep coming up, but it's like an endless piece of string full of knots - sometimes you manage to undo them and find you've suddently two or three pieces instead of one!

Obadiah.  What an usual name . It sounds very Romany / Gypsy.  I see a few Obadiah Mayers were present in the stoke on trent area round the same time period
Halket- longton Stoke on Trent / Banff Scotland
Cooke - Meir/Longton Stoke on Trent
Emery- Meir/ Longton Stoke-on-Trent
Shaw - Birmingham
Leese - Longton/ Fenton/Stoke-on-Trent
Neild/Nield/Neeld/Neald- Uttoxeter/ Abbots bromley
Hodgkinson/Hodgkins - Uttoxeter/Hanbury/Lichfield/Rugeley/Abbots bromley
Brassington - Uttoxeter
Thorley - Stoke on Trent
Mears -Wetley Rocks/Longton Stoke on Trent
Breeze- Hanley/Longton/Stoke-on-Trent/Staffordshire/Shropshire
Burton - Uttoxeter


Offline Garen

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Re: Staffordshire Travellers
« Reply #58 on: Saturday 08 January 22 23:48 GMT (UK) »
I knew William Nield was Billy Button, but had no idea how common the nickname was - fascinating stuff - thank you.

I guess the only question now is - which William Nield was Billy Button? Was it Clement William Nield (b. Uttoxeter 1853), or was it William Clement Nield (b. Uttoxeter 1854)?! These two, who both went by the name William and only sometimes using the name Clement, have been easily mixed up by researchers (including myself, leading to me going down the wrong road a fair bit early on).

Clement William (1853) was the son of Charles Nield and Mary Ann Grundy, and Mary, in turn, was the daughter of Clement Grundy and his second wife, Mary Fenton. Clement's first wife was Ann Smith, and she was the mother of John Grundy - married to Maria Hodgkins for less than a day.

Maria Hodgkins remarried to Thomas Nield and was the mother of William Clement Nield (1854), later adopted by Josiah Hodgkins and Ann Smallwood. Why he should use the name Clement I'm not sure. It is this second William I believe to be Billy Button, as he was said to be 26 years old in 1881. He married Rosanna Wright in 1885.

Clement William married Hannah Mitchell in 1880, so probably wasn't in a gang of lads attacking Irish men for tobacco in 1881 (not impossible, of course, it's just a gang is more the environment for a bachelor ...)

A point of interest - when Charles Nield married Mary Ann Grundy in Uttoxeter in 1845, one of the witnesses was Obadiah Mayer, the grandson of the elder Obadiah, and the son of William Mayer and Ann Johnson. I believe William Mayer may have remarried to an Ann Nield.

To stir further - when Obadiah married Catherine Fennity in 1852, one of the witnesses was 'Caroline Blewer', and this is very likely to be Caroline Hodgkinson, daughter of William Hodgkinson and Elizabeth Mear (read Mayer), and who married a John Bloor (read Blewer) in 1850.
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Family research - http://www.garenewing.co.uk/family/

Offline MeirSoul

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Re: Staffordshire Travellers
« Reply #59 on: Sunday 09 January 22 19:37 GMT (UK) »
I knew William Nield was Billy Button, but had no idea how common the nickname was - fascinating stuff - thank you.

I guess the only question now is - which William Nield was Billy Button? Was it Clement William Nield (b. Uttoxeter 1853), or was it William Clement Nield (b. Uttoxeter 1854)?! These two, who both went by the name William and only sometimes using the name Clement, have been easily mixed up by researchers (including myself, leading to me going down the wrong road a fair bit early on).

Clement William (1853) was the son of Charles Nield and Mary Ann Grundy, and Mary, in turn, was the daughter of Clement Grundy and his second wife, Mary Fenton. Clement's first wife was Ann Smith, and she was the mother of John Grundy - married to Maria Hodgkins for less than a day.

Maria Hodgkins remarried to Thomas Nield and was the mother of William Clement Nield (1854), later adopted by Josiah Hodgkins and Ann Smallwood. Why he should use the name Clement I'm not sure. It is this second William I believe to be Billy Button, as he was said to be 26 years old in 1881. He married Rosanna Wright in 1885.

Clement William married Hannah Mitchell in 1880, so probably wasn't in a gang of lads attacking Irish men for tobacco in 1881 (not impossible, of course, it's just a gang is more the environment for a bachelor ...)

A point of interest - when Charles Nield married Mary Ann Grundy in Uttoxeter in 1845, one of the witnesses was Obadiah Mayer, the grandson of the elder Obadiah, and the son of William Mayer and Ann Johnson. I believe William Mayer may have remarried to an Ann Nield.

To stir further - when Obadiah married Catherine Fennity in 1852, one of the witnesses was 'Caroline Blewer', and this is very likely to be Caroline Hodgkinson, daughter of William Hodgkinson and Elizabeth Mear (read Mayer), and who married a John Bloor (read Blewer) in 1850.

Are we saying obodiah Mayer is the father of Elizabeth Mear ? Wife of William Hodgkinson.  Im struggling to find a father for Elizabeth but on Ancestry I've seen a father for Elizabeth by the name of Thomas but I never fully trust other trees until I see it it for myself
Halket- longton Stoke on Trent / Banff Scotland
Cooke - Meir/Longton Stoke on Trent
Emery- Meir/ Longton Stoke-on-Trent
Shaw - Birmingham
Leese - Longton/ Fenton/Stoke-on-Trent
Neild/Nield/Neeld/Neald- Uttoxeter/ Abbots bromley
Hodgkinson/Hodgkins - Uttoxeter/Hanbury/Lichfield/Rugeley/Abbots bromley
Brassington - Uttoxeter
Thorley - Stoke on Trent
Mears -Wetley Rocks/Longton Stoke on Trent
Breeze- Hanley/Longton/Stoke-on-Trent/Staffordshire/Shropshire
Burton - Uttoxeter

Offline MeirSoul

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Re: Staffordshire Travellers
« Reply #60 on: Sunday 09 January 22 19:43 GMT (UK) »


Harriet Brassington of Smithfield road Uttoxeter, applied for an affiliation order against James Bloor (18), Smithfield-road, Uttoxeter, in respect of her illegitimate child, born on February 29 last.
Defendant admitted responsibility, and an order of 2s. a week was made………….



Brassington is another name that crops up often.  My great x2 grandmother was Clara Neild , daughter of Job Neild and Emma Brassington . Clara went on to marry Stephen Leese in Longton and became known as the grand old lady of longton.  By the time she died she had over 100 living direct descendants in the Longton and Meir area of Stoke on Trent . I actually remember my own grandparents talking about Clara . Apparently she was a fish Hawker at one time
Halket- longton Stoke on Trent / Banff Scotland
Cooke - Meir/Longton Stoke on Trent
Emery- Meir/ Longton Stoke-on-Trent
Shaw - Birmingham
Leese - Longton/ Fenton/Stoke-on-Trent
Neild/Nield/Neeld/Neald- Uttoxeter/ Abbots bromley
Hodgkinson/Hodgkins - Uttoxeter/Hanbury/Lichfield/Rugeley/Abbots bromley
Brassington - Uttoxeter
Thorley - Stoke on Trent
Mears -Wetley Rocks/Longton Stoke on Trent
Breeze- Hanley/Longton/Stoke-on-Trent/Staffordshire/Shropshire
Burton - Uttoxeter

Offline Garen

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Re: Staffordshire Travellers
« Reply #61 on: Monday 10 January 22 09:59 GMT (UK) »
Are we saying obodiah Mayer is the father of Elizabeth Mear ? Wife of William Hodgkinson.  Im struggling to find a father for Elizabeth but on Ancestry I've seen a father for Elizabeth by the name of Thomas but I never fully trust other trees until I see it it for myself

I have not put Elizaeth Mear down as Obadiah's daughter on my tree - but she's lightly pencilled as 'possible', and I'm leaning towards 'likely' but would definitely like more evidence.

Obadiah married Sarah Blewer in Whitmore in 1793. The children I've found include: Sarah (1797), Obadiah (1798), William (1800), John (1802), Jane (1804), Joseph (1805), Hugh (1806), and Josiah (1810).

Sarah (daughter) was baptised in Trentham in January 1797 and my suspicion is that she is the same Sarah Mayer who married Edward Hodgkinson in Castle Church in 1816. Sarah's burial record in 1837 gives her age as 35, but it's very possible (as sometimes shown with other young-mother deaths) this was a rounded-down age - and would mean an unusually young marriage otherwise (though perfectly possible).

Edward Hodgkinson was very likely the brother of William who married Elizabeth Mear. Elizabeth is recorded in the census returns as born about 1796 in Blurton, Staffs (though, again, I wonder if she was a little older given her marriage date) - Blurton is just 3 miles from Trentham where Obidiah and Sarah baptised many of their children (Trentham and Longton).

With the other evident peripheral connections (census community, marriage witnesses, newspaper connections), and such double-sibling marriages being common (or common enough) with Gypsy families, I think it's all weighted towards 'likely'. This is generally how Gypsy-related research has to be in the absence of records - but I remain cautious and it might be worth checking out Elizabeths with father Thomas, even if just to positively reject them.

Of the other Mayer children, I have Obadiah (1798-1866) marrying Jane Blood in Uttoxeter, 1821; William Mayer (1800) marrying Ann Johnson in Uttoxeter 1819 (and maybe Ann Nield as a second wife) - his son, Obadiah (1820) had Caroline Hodgkisnon (Blewer) as a witness on his marriage - if Elizabeth Mear was his aunt then Caroline would be his cousin); and John Mayer marrying Maria Jane Florence in Uttoxeter in 1823.

Best - Garen
Second Anglo-Afghan War 1878-80 - http://www.angloafghanwar.info
Family research - http://www.garenewing.co.uk/family/

Offline MeirSoul

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Re: Staffordshire Travellers
« Reply #62 on: Monday 10 January 22 15:03 GMT (UK) »
Are we saying obodiah Mayer is the father of Elizabeth Mear ? Wife of William Hodgkinson.  Im struggling to find a father for Elizabeth but on Ancestry I've seen a father for Elizabeth by the name of Thomas but I never fully trust other trees until I see it it for myself

I have not put Elizaeth Mear down as Obadiah's daughter on my tree - but she's lightly pencilled as 'possible', and I'm leaning towards 'likely' but would definitely like more evidence.

Obadiah married Sarah Blewer in Whitmore in 1793. The children I've found include: Sarah (1797), Obadiah (1798), William (1800), John (1802), Jane (1804), Joseph (1805), Hugh (1806), and Josiah (1810).

Sarah (daughter) was baptised in Trentham in January 1797 and my suspicion is that she is the same Sarah Mayer who married Edward Hodgkinson in Castle Church in 1816. Sarah's burial record in 1837 gives her age as 35, but it's very possible (as sometimes shown with other young-mother deaths) this was a rounded-down age - and would mean an unusually young marriage otherwise (though perfectly possible).

Edward Hodgkinson was very likely the brother of William who married Elizabeth Mear. Elizabeth is recorded in the census returns as born about 1796 in Blurton, Staffs (though, again, I wonder if she was a little older given her marriage date) - Blurton is just 3 miles from Trentham where Obidiah and Sarah baptised many of their children (Trentham and Longton).

With the other evident peripheral connections (census community, marriage witnesses, newspaper connections), and such double-sibling marriages being common (or common enough) with Gypsy families, I think it's all weighted towards 'likely'. This is generally how Gypsy-related research has to be in the absence of records - but I remain cautious and it might be worth checking out Elizabeths with father Thomas, even if just to positively reject them.

Of the other Mayer children, I have Obadiah (1798-1866) marrying Jane Blood in Uttoxeter, 1821; William Mayer (1800) marrying Ann Johnson in Uttoxeter 1819 (and maybe Ann Nield as a second wife) - his son, Obadiah (1820) had Caroline Hodgkisnon (Blewer) as a witness on his marriage - if Elizabeth Mear was his aunt then Caroline would be his cousin); and John Mayer marrying Maria Jane Florence in Uttoxeter in 1823.

Best - Garen

I come from longton myself originally and moved to Trentham for a few years . Ill have a good look at Obadiah , Edward and Elizabeth and see what I can find.  So far I have found a Thomas Obidiah Mayer who was a horse dealer and an Obidiah Mayer who was a cattle dealer in Yoxall

Many thanks
Halket- longton Stoke on Trent / Banff Scotland
Cooke - Meir/Longton Stoke on Trent
Emery- Meir/ Longton Stoke-on-Trent
Shaw - Birmingham
Leese - Longton/ Fenton/Stoke-on-Trent
Neild/Nield/Neeld/Neald- Uttoxeter/ Abbots bromley
Hodgkinson/Hodgkins - Uttoxeter/Hanbury/Lichfield/Rugeley/Abbots bromley
Brassington - Uttoxeter
Thorley - Stoke on Trent
Mears -Wetley Rocks/Longton Stoke on Trent
Breeze- Hanley/Longton/Stoke-on-Trent/Staffordshire/Shropshire
Burton - Uttoxeter