Author Topic: Alexander Brodie and Margaret Fram / Ferme in Oldhamstocks, Bara and Garvald  (Read 1857 times)

Offline kirstyc

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Hi all
Trying to track an ancestor in East Lothian and would appreciate any help or suggestions as I'm not familiar with this area.

I'm looking for a Jane Brodie born in Garvald in 1777 or 1778. She married James Church, a farmer in Canonbie, Dumfries-shire. She's listed in the 1851 census and a marriage notice as being called Jane, but the only possible births I can find are a Jean Brodie and a Janet Brodie. Jean and Janet were both born to a Alexander Brodie and Margaret Ferme or Fram.

If it's the right couple, they married in Oldhamstocks in 1757 and then went on to have 12 children (gulp) over the next 20 years. The first 4 were born in Oldhamstocks and the rest in Garvald.

1 13/09/1758   BRODIE   JOHN   ALEXANDER BRODIE/MARGARET FERME    M   OLDHAMSTOCKS
2 17/02/1760   BRODIE   MARY   ALEXANDER BRODIE/MARGARET FERME    F   OLDHAMSTOCKS
3 12/06/1761   BRODIE   ELISABETH   ALEXANDER BRODIE/MARGARET FERME    F   OLDHAMSTOCKS
4 26/04/1763   BRODIE   JANET   ALEXANDER BRODIE/MARGARET FERME    F   OLDHAMSTOCKS
5 08/01/1765   BRODIE   MARY   ALEXANDER BRODIE/MARGARET FRAM    F   GARVALD
6 08/10/1766   BRODIE   ELIZABETH   ALEXANDER BRODIE/MARGARET FRAM    F   GARVALD
7 05/12/1768   BRODIE   ISABLE   ALEXANDER BRODIE/MARGARET FRAM    F   GARVALD
8 22/09/1770   BRODIE   ALEXANDER   ALEXANDER BRODIE/MARGARET FRAM F   M   GARVALD         
9   07/01/1772   BRODIE   JAMES   ALEXANDER BRODIE/MARGARET FRAM    M   GARVALD   
10 30/08/1773   BRODIE   MARGARET   ALEXANDER BRODIE/MARGARET FRAM    F   GARVALD
11   28/07/1775   BRODIE   JANET   ALEXANDER BRODIE/MARGARET FRAM    F   GARVALD   
12 05/09/1777   BRODIE   JEAN   ALEXANDER BRODIE/MARGARET FARM    F   GARVALD

I've a few questions that I'd really love some help with as I don't know this part of Scotland at all and am drawing lots of blanks:

1. The Jean born in 1777 seems the most likely because of the dates but I didn't know that Jane was an abbreviation of Jean. She was listed as Jane in her marriage notices and census. Any thoughts on the Jean / Janet / Jane thing?

2. There are inconsistencies in the spelling of Ferme / Fram so it is possible that these are two different couples. Has anyone come across any Fermes or Frams anywhere else in the Oldhamstocks area?

3. Jean and Janet's baptism records state that Alexander Brodie was tenant at Bara. Can't find anything at all relating to him there. Am assuming that the family moved from Oldhamstocks to Bara sometime in 1763 and 1764.

4. The 2 baptism records I've seen also say that John Brodies elder and younger were witnesses. These could be Alexander's father and brother or eldest son. Can't find any trace of them either.

Sorry for the very long post but thanks for reading!!

Kirsty
Bell, Church, Little, Calvert, Macdonald - Canonbie, Langholm - Dumfries-shire; Roxburgh-shire
Cochrane - Haddingtonshire, Fife, Clacks
Brodie - East Lothian
McDonald - Scotland
Smart, Robertson - Kirkcaldy & Dysar, Fife; Dundee
Chesters, Allen, Pennington - Cheshire & North Wales
Christer - Cumberland, Northumberland, Cumbria, N Lincs
Altorfer, Haller, Feller - Switzerland

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Offline ev

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Re: Alexander Brodie and Margaret Fram / Ferme in Oldhamstocks, Bara and Garvald
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 12 January 16 14:18 GMT (UK) »
Hi Kirsty ,

Jean and Jane are interchangeable.

Have you looked at the Wills section on Scotlandpeople ?
Alexander Brodie , date 30th Oct. 1793 , tenent in Barra(7 pages) , Edinburgh Commissary Court.



ev
Census information Crown copyright , All Census information from transcriptions - check original records , Familysearch/IGI is a finding tool only - check original records

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Offline kirstyc

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Re: Alexander Brodie and Margaret Fram / Ferme in Oldhamstocks, Bara and Garvald
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 12 January 16 14:47 GMT (UK) »
Hi Ev
Thanks for the reply - no I hadn't as I hadn't tried the alternative spelling. Will have a look...

Kirsty
Bell, Church, Little, Calvert, Macdonald - Canonbie, Langholm - Dumfries-shire; Roxburgh-shire
Cochrane - Haddingtonshire, Fife, Clacks
Brodie - East Lothian
McDonald - Scotland
Smart, Robertson - Kirkcaldy & Dysar, Fife; Dundee
Chesters, Allen, Pennington - Cheshire & North Wales
Christer - Cumberland, Northumberland, Cumbria, N Lincs
Altorfer, Haller, Feller - Switzerland

Offline kirstyc

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Re: Alexander Brodie and Margaret Fram / Ferme in Oldhamstocks, Bara and Garvald
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 12 January 16 14:50 GMT (UK) »
Also, do you think that Janet died in infancy and they just reused the name a couple of years later, albeit in a slightly different form? There was an even earlier Janet in 1763 as well.
Bell, Church, Little, Calvert, Macdonald - Canonbie, Langholm - Dumfries-shire; Roxburgh-shire
Cochrane - Haddingtonshire, Fife, Clacks
Brodie - East Lothian
McDonald - Scotland
Smart, Robertson - Kirkcaldy & Dysar, Fife; Dundee
Chesters, Allen, Pennington - Cheshire & North Wales
Christer - Cumberland, Northumberland, Cumbria, N Lincs
Altorfer, Haller, Feller - Switzerland

Offline Skoosh

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Re: Alexander Brodie and Margaret Fram / Ferme in Oldhamstocks, Bara and Garvald
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 12 January 16 21:49 GMT (UK) »
How about Frame, Kirsty?

Skoosh

Offline GR2

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Re: Alexander Brodie and Margaret Fram / Ferme in Oldhamstocks, Bara and Garvald
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 12 January 16 22:34 GMT (UK) »
Whilst it is possible they are two couples, it looks like they are the same. As Skoosh says, Frame is the likely modern spelling. There is a process of metathesis by which a word like "grass" becomes "girse" in some dialects of Scots. That would easily account for the Fer becoming Fra. A different parish, a different clerk.

Offline mamad

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Re: Alexander Brodie and Margaret Fram / Ferme in Oldhamstocks, Bara and Garvald
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 16 June 16 16:03 BST (UK) »
Hello Kirsty,

Have sent a PM re the deaths of some of the children of Alexander and Margaret.

Mags

Offline mamad

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Re: Alexander Brodie and Margaret Fram / Ferme in Oldhamstocks, Bara and Garvald
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 16 June 16 17:09 BST (UK) »
Me again Kirsty

Just reread your message about Baro. There's a John Brodie buried at Innerwick who lived at Baro. He died 7/09/1784.

Mags