Author Topic: Todd and Buchanan mystery in Glasgow  (Read 10753 times)

Offline scritsal

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Todd and Buchanan mystery in Glasgow
« on: Sunday 04 December 16 21:55 GMT (UK) »
Hi, this is my first post, and I hope it will solve a long standing mystery. My 3x g-grandmother is Mary Buchanan born 1828/9 Glasgow. She was the illegitimate daughter of a wealthy textile manufacturer - Charles Todd of Springfield Mill, Glasgow.(1791-1840)  her mother was Margaret Buchanan. I have plenty of information about the Todd's (they were a well known family who had many businesses in Bonhill,, Alexandria, Glasgow etc)., but I cannot find any information about the Buchanans. Was Margaret a servant to Charles, or was she related to the Buchanan tobacco lords? Charles & Margaret had 3 illegitimate children together - Mary  who married Colonel Sir David Davidson of Woodcroft, Edinburgh, David born 1830 of Bragburgh Hall, Northants and  Northfield House, Rugby (a well known cricketer of his time) and my ancestor Mary who married William Middlemass (a surgeon in the Indian Army). Charles's will leaves substantial bequests to his 3 "natural" or "reputed" children and their mother providing that "they live no nearer than 15 miles of Glasgow! Charles is buried in his father's lair (David Todd) in the Ramshorn churchyard in Glasgow, however I have recently discovered an old newspaper article from the Glasgow Herald which describes the finding of a glass bottle in Lair 50 of Ramshorn Cemetery which belongs to the Buchanans of Auchmur. This bottle contained the instructions for the embalment of Charles Todd in Paris 1841. Is this the link to the Buchanans? I would also like to know if it was common for the Glasgow middle class at this time to have children out of wedlock - Charles,'s brother John Todd of Finnich Malise, Drymen also had a number of illegitimate children.

Offline Skoosh

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Re: Todd and Buchanan mystery in Glasgow
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 04 December 16 23:04 GMT (UK) »
Scritsal, that would be Auchmar, now belongs to the Graham's. As to the middle class, despite their respectability & religiosity they were at it like rabbits!  ;D

Online Forfarian

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Re: Todd and Buchanan mystery in Glasgow
« Reply #2 on: Monday 05 December 16 00:06 GMT (UK) »
I would also like to know if it was common for the Glasgow middle class at this time to have children out of wedlock - Charles,'s brother John Todd of Finnich Malise, Drymen also had a number of illegitimate children.
Double standards coming up: it was not all that common for the daughters of the middle class to have illegitimate children, and if they did have one it was discreetly hushed up and you don't usually find them, but it wasn't uncommon for the sons to sire a few by-blows. 

I do have one wealthy landowning farmer in my tree who married respectably in 1847, had a legitimate family of seven between then and 1859, then deserted his wife and set up a home for his much younger mistress, who bore him six more children between 1872 and 1883. Most of them are registered with the surname of the mistress' husband, who had vanished some years before, though she does declare that he is not the father. About 1881 the errant farmer adopted another name and appears in the census in 1891 and 1901 with that surname, living with the mistress who is described as his wife. The real wife outlived him, but his will, executed in his real name, makes no reference at all to her or to any of his legitimate family.
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline scritsal

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Re: Todd and Buchanan mystery in Glasgow
« Reply #3 on: Monday 05 December 16 21:25 GMT (UK) »
Thanks to you both. It just seems a little odd that Charles and his brother both had a number of children by the same partners over a number of years. Charles had 3 children by Margaret Buchanan over 8 years while John had 4 children by Ann Bruce over a period of 21 years, but neither of them seemed to get married. Is there anything to be read into the fact that Charles's children bore the surname Buchan's, while John's children kept the Todd name?


Offline MonicaL

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Re: Todd and Buchanan mystery in Glasgow
« Reply #4 on: Monday 05 December 16 22:22 GMT (UK) »
.... I have plenty of information about the Todd's (they were a well known family who had many businesses in Bonhill,, Alexandria, Glasgow etc)., but I cannot find any information about the Buchanans. Was Margaret a servant to Charles, or was she related to the Buchanan tobacco lords?

Have you got Margaret and her children in the early censuses to give you more details on Margaret Buchanan?

Monica
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Offline Rosinish

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Re: Todd and Buchanan mystery in Glasgow
« Reply #5 on: Monday 05 December 16 23:13 GMT (UK) »
Charles & Margaret had 3 illegitimate children together - Mary, David and my ancestor Mary

Sorry, just checking there's no 'typo' with 2 Mary's?

Annie
South Uist, Inverness-shire, Scotland:- Bowie, Campbell, Cumming, Currie

Ireland:- Cullen, Flannigan (Derry), Donahoe/Donaghue (variants) (Cork), McCrate (Tipperary), Mellon, Tol(l)and (Donegal & Tyrone)

Newcastle-on-Tyne/Durham (Northumberland):- Harrison, Jude, Kemp, Lunn, Mellon, Robson, Stirling

Kettering, Northampton:- MacKinnon

Canada:- Callaghan, Cumming, MacPhee

"OLD GENEALOGISTS NEVER DIE - THEY JUST LOSE THEIR CENSUS"

Offline Rosinish

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Re: Todd and Buchanan mystery in Glasgow
« Reply #6 on: Monday 05 December 16 23:59 GMT (UK) »
I found this re David Buchanan natural son of Charles Todd, Merchant, Glasgow dated 1844?

Seems a bit young at age 14 yrs regarding Accounts (I may be wrong), if he was born 1830.

This would need to be viewed at NRS (in-house), not available online.

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01izp/

Reference;   CS313
Title;   Court of Session: Factory Processes, Accounts and Other Papers Connected Therewith
Date; 1739-1877
      
South Uist, Inverness-shire, Scotland:- Bowie, Campbell, Cumming, Currie

Ireland:- Cullen, Flannigan (Derry), Donahoe/Donaghue (variants) (Cork), McCrate (Tipperary), Mellon, Tol(l)and (Donegal & Tyrone)

Newcastle-on-Tyne/Durham (Northumberland):- Harrison, Jude, Kemp, Lunn, Mellon, Robson, Stirling

Kettering, Northampton:- MacKinnon

Canada:- Callaghan, Cumming, MacPhee

"OLD GENEALOGISTS NEVER DIE - THEY JUST LOSE THEIR CENSUS"

Offline Rosinish

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Re: Todd and Buchanan mystery in Glasgow
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 06 December 16 04:20 GMT (UK) »
Hi scritsal,

Just wondering whether you have baptisms for the 3 children with dates/places or are they circa dates?

Do you know where all 3 were born?

I'm unsure what this actually means;

"David born 1830 of Bragburgh Hall, Northants and  Northfield House, Rugby (a well known cricketer of his time)"

Does this mean he lived there or was he born there?

If he was living there can you please give details of when/where & occupation (pre, during & post his Cricket days)?

Can you tell us how you arrived at the conclusion of Charles being the father please as it will help research further.

What are the suggestions of Charles being your ancestor pre the will?

Does his will give an address for Margaret or ages for his children?

Does it name them individually?

What I'm basically asking is, how do you know that Mary & mother Margaret are your ancestors & that there were 3 siblings apart from being named on the will?

I'm not doubting it but a mystery like this (to you) who has info. to follow is a bigger mystery for researchers who have no info. to follow, if that makes sense?

Can you please post as much definite info. you have please to help, names/dates/places & any references to your Buchanan people?

Annie

South Uist, Inverness-shire, Scotland:- Bowie, Campbell, Cumming, Currie

Ireland:- Cullen, Flannigan (Derry), Donahoe/Donaghue (variants) (Cork), McCrate (Tipperary), Mellon, Tol(l)and (Donegal & Tyrone)

Newcastle-on-Tyne/Durham (Northumberland):- Harrison, Jude, Kemp, Lunn, Mellon, Robson, Stirling

Kettering, Northampton:- MacKinnon

Canada:- Callaghan, Cumming, MacPhee

"OLD GENEALOGISTS NEVER DIE - THEY JUST LOSE THEIR CENSUS"

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Re: Todd and Buchanan mystery in Glasgow
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 06 December 16 10:07 GMT (UK) »
I'm unsure what this actually means;
"David born 1830 of Bragburgh Hall, Northants and  Northfield House, Rugby (a well known cricketer of his time)"
Does this mean he lived there or was he born there?
or that he came to own these properties in later life, and if so, how did he afford them?

I had a look at the England and Wales census and there is no David Tod(d) at Bragborough Hall or at Northfield House, Rugby in any of the censuses. In fact the only one who looks as if he could possibly be your David Todd, born 1830, is a 20-year-old student, born Alexandria, Dunbartonshire, lodging in Montague House, Great Malvern in 1851.

FamilySearch does not list the baptism of a David Todd in Dunbartonshire, but in the 1841 census there is a 10-year-old David Todd in Gas Street, Bonhill, Dunbartonshire in the household of Anne Todd, 35, independent and William Todd, 20, calico printer. So I don't think he is yours either.

Also tried a search for 'David Todd cricketer' but there are far too many listings of 20th and 21st century cricketers called David Todd that I quickly gave that up.

As Rosinish has said, if you haven't solved the mystery with all the information you have access to, it's even harder for us to solve it with less information.
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.