Gravestones etc

[D ap D]

Not wanting to hijack Gracelands thread, but following a similar line of thought, I have questions to 2 subjects:

1)
If the grave of, say, your great great grandparents from ca. 1860 was still there, the grave all over grown, the headstone simply decayed away so that the council would probably lay it flat or remove soon, what would you do?
Would you clear away all the rubbish and detritus? Would you leave the stone as it is as a "monument, because thats the original stone"? Or would you arrange to have a new stone erected?

2)
You find the grave of another set of gg grandparents. Due to their financial circumstances at the time, they couldn't afford a stone. You know that not only are your gggp there, but also 3 of their children. You know the date of burial, you know the dates of birth and the dates they died.
Would you have a stone put on the grave? If so, would you ask other family members to contribute?

These are current subjects of mine, I've been mulling them over in my mind for a while and I'd now like to hear the opinions of others.

D

[Thisty]

Personally if I could afford it I would erect a new stone in each case.  I would also ask other family members if they wished to contribute but be prepared for them to refuse.

 

[Linda_J]

Hi

I asked about a rellies stone in the local cemetery here in Kent, England. Their reply was only the person who had purchased the grave could have a stone changed or repaired. Presumably the 'ownership' would pass to the next of kin.

I am wondering if each local council set their own rules or if there is a set rule for the whole of the UK.

Linda

[Guy Etchells]

Gravestones like all heritable property including burial plots may be assigned in a will otherwise they are included in the clause that covers all other unamed items.
Cheers
Guy

[Guy Etchells]

Not wanting to hijack Gracelands thread, but following a similar line of thought, I have questions to 2 subjects:

1)
If the grave of, say, your great great grandparents from ca. 1860 was still there, the grave all over grown, the headstone simply decayed away so that the council would probably lay it flat or remove soon, what would you do?
Would you clear away all the rubbish and detritus? Would you leave the stone as it is as a "monument, because thats the original stone"? Or would you arrange to have a new stone erected?

2)
You find the grave of another set of gg grandparents. Due to their financial circumstances at the time, they couldn't afford a stone. You know that not only are your gggp there, but also 3 of their children. You know the date of burial, you know the dates of birth and the dates they died.
Would you have a stone put on the grave? If so, would you ask other family members to contribute?

These are current subjects of mine, I've been mulling them over in my mind for a while and I'd now like to hear the opinions of others.

D

I have helped others in both situations.
1) Rather than remove the existing stone arrange to have a new stone the same size and shape placed back to back with the original stone.
Any new inscription may be added to the new stone which will provide support for the original.

2) If the vicar or the cemetery authorities allow a stone could be placed on the grave with a date of when it was erected to avoid confusion in later years.
Whether to ask for contributions depends on the family members situation and feelings towrds the person buried.
Cheers
Guy

[jinks]

When my Grandmother died, years ago
her name was never placed on the Gravestone,

Many moons later my Grandfather was then
buried in the same grave, and still no
inscriptions.

The grave now consisted of Great Grandfather,
Great Grandmother, Two small children, my
Grandfather and Grandmother.
(Grave now full)

Many moons later it was agreed to place my
Grandparents names on the grave. but the
gravestone was full.

So another Gravestone was made and the
inscriptions were placed on. (I was pleased)

But the two small children were omitted
(I cannot say I was in agreement but it was
the older generation that made the desision)

Jinks

Being into family history I would place as much information as was possible.
ie. b1900 d.1990
maiden name, abode, relationships.

[KarenM]

I have found a child of my great-grandmother who died when she was only 18 months old in 1911.  They could not afford a headstone at the time and as years passed on no one knew she existed until I found her again.

I am having a stone put on her grave and plan on asking the previous generation (my father and his cousins) to donate if they would like.  If not, no problem, I will still have it done.

Karen

[MarieC]

Interesting about ownership of graves and restrictions on what you can do!

My local cemetery here in Oz is very laid back.  Doing the right thing, I went to see the cemetery admin. officer before starting to do anything.  His attitude was that it was up to me what I did and he didn't even particularly want to know about it!  Certainly didn't ask for any proof that I was a descendant of the people buried there.

I have a dilemma about caring for graves also.  A few months ago, two cousins in Sydney took me on a drive to see family graves they had discovered.  Many were very historic, and also in very poor repair.  But one cousin in particular feels that they should be left as they are.  As she was the one who found them, and as Sydney is 1,000 kilometres from where I live, I don't feel I can do anything, but it is niggling at me!!!

MarieC

[PrueM]

Hi Marie, just reading your comments and agree we are much more laid back over here (in Oz), and apart from historically important cemeteries like Rookwood in Sydney, as long as you are not intentionally desecrating a grave I think pretty much anything goes in terms of restoration/clearing/cleaning etc!

I went to London last year for a few months (studying) and was quite close to the old Camberwell cemetery, so decided to visit one lunchtime (having written to the local council beforehand and got a map showing where my grave of interest was located).  When I walked in the gates I was pleasantly surprised, everything was well-kept and there were workers tidying up about the place, nice paths, little buildings etc.  But then I turned off about 50 yards inside the gates, onto a little gravel path leading between VERY overgrown plots...the first row on either side of the path was cleared, but after that it was thick brambles, HUGE rosebushes (honestly, I've never seen anything like it!!) and reasonable sized trees growing all over and between the graves!  I had to find one that was 3 rows in, and then when I found it the stone was face down on the grave!!!

I took two distant cousins there a few weeks later, and we turned the stone over so we could read it (after taking secateurs and knives to clear a path!) but most of the face of the stone had rotted away into the earth - it had obviously fallen a long time ago.  However, we made out some of the names and other text (we knew who had been buried there from the cemetery records)...we decided to leave the stone up - we and our immediate families are the only descendants of the people in the grave, so we felt it was our right to leave the stone upright and visible, if it had been in better condition we might have laid it down again to preserve the carving, but so much of it was gone we preferred to have it standing so it could at least be seen from the path.

I was really saddened by the state of about 80% of the old Camberwell cemetery.  The same, I believe, goes for many of the very large Victorian urban cemeteries in London.  The letter I had from the council indicated that the grave was in a "conservation" area - when I first read that I thought "oh good, they are conserving all the graves so it will be in great condition!" - how wrong I was!

Gosh, what a rambling post that was 

Have attached a pic of part of the stone so you can see the state it was in.  I asked the council if I could lift it and they said I could basically do what i liked with it.

Prue