Gordon Blair - Mystery? or Not!

[isobelw]

The bit below the signature is the signature of A Monteith who was the clerk witnessing it ( so definitely Gordon's signature). Other entries on the page are witnessed by the same person. Well done JM for spotting the definite similarity. I was a bit dubious about proving through signatures, but that 'D' is so unusual it is a real pointer to both documents being completed by the same person.
Annie - I suddenly wondered about the Poor Law records as well. Maybe if someone was going to the Mitchell Library could have a look.
Isobel

[majm]

Now, umm.... who was Horatius and is there any family connection between him and Gordon Blair, Writer. ?

Glasgow 1857 Register of Electors Fifth Ward
Name :Horatius BLAIR,
Abode : Greenbank, Govan Road,
Occupation : WRITER,
Qualification to vote : Proprietor of houses,
Where situate : 155 Stockwell Street,

Agh, Annie,  I had not noticed the different address, I had assumed one of those words read "Clerk".   If they had separated, I wonder if some speculative theories are worth considering:

a) what if Gordon had no idea that Jane, his housekeeper had previous relationship with Henry and had by 1855 discovered her (oops .... 1849 daughter's)  existence and so felt that there were at least theological impediments to his 1851 marriage
b) that Jane Drummond SCHWABE had learned of her mum's marriage to Gordon via Gordon or a member of his family, or perhaps the clergyman who conducted the 1851 ceremony striving to help him sort out his 1851 marriage status
c) what if Gordon was advised to leave Glasgow and so he followed his mum and sisters to Queensland
d) what if Gordon explained that failed marriage to his clergyman in Brisbane or Ipswich, and it was the determination of that independent congregation - perhaps after letters exchanged with clergyman in Glasgow, that Gordon's marital status was 'bachelor'....  and so the independent congregation in Ipswich decided Gordon and Julia were a married couple prior to the unification of those 12 independent Presbyterian congregations
e) what if the Queensland parliament's Marriage Act of 1865 did not cover the 'marriage' determination of that independent congregation and that flaw was overcome by the 1876 marriage ceremony which has the likely ages and occupations for Gordon and Julia from 1864ish

ALL speculation of course .... but in my own research of the history of marriage in NSW from 1788 on, I can assure you that there was still a hot topic of debate even forty years after civil registration of marriages commenced in NSW, and the debate centred around the differences between secular marriage requirements of NSW parliament  and the ecclesiastical laws for the sanctity of marriage, and basically the statute definition of marriage.   The practical problem stemmed from combining the two ceremonies into one, so that the clergy (any denomination) were required to be approved to conduct marriages in accordance with statute laws, and the details of the parties to the marriage would be recorded in civil registers by persons who were not of that denomination.      I do not know if similar difficulties were faced in Queensland, but it took more than 40 years for NSW civil admin and the NSW churches to find a solution that worked.

RED POST,  I will post anyway. 

JM

[Forfarian]

It has crossed my mind to wonder whether perhaps Gordon Blair and Jane Norval's banns were called, but there was no actual marriage ceremony. Have we seen the original of the record of proclamation of banns? Does it actually say they were married?

[majm]

My transcription of a document on an Ancestry tree    . 
The tree owner labels this document OPR Marraiage, (sic)
Blair & Norval, 1850 and it was originally shared 13 April 2015
 

07/06/2850 BLAIR, Gordon [O.P.R. Marriages  644/01 0430 0636 Glasgow ] and it seems to be a download from SP. 

632  Glasgow 19th May 1850
(Sixth entry down the page as per JM’s count)
BLAIR   Gordon Blair, Clerk in Glasgow & Jane Norval residing there, Married 7th June by Mr Alexander Wilson Free Church Minister in Glasgow

(Six more entries follow, not all include the date of the marriage ceremony, and this one seems to be the only one on that page for that clergyman. Other clergy include Dr Duncan McFarlan, Minister of Glasgow; Mr Alexander Wilson, United Presbyterian; Dr John Cadie, United Presbyterian; Mr David Russell,  Independent Minister in Glasgow; )

JM

[Forfarian]

Gordon Blair, Clerk in Glasgow & Jane Norval residing there, Married 7th June by Mr Alexander Wilson Free Church Minister in Glasgow

Oh, well, that disposes of the idea that there was no marriage ceremony. Back to the drawing board.

[isobelw]

Original marriage entry for Gordon and Jane which I downloaded from SP a while back.
Isobel

[loobylooayr]

Reading JM's speculative theories has made me venture to post one of my own.

What if Gordon Blair in Scotland never was a Law Clerk or a Writer?

We have no proof he did either job. Only his occupation on birth/death certificates for his children and on some of them he becomes James Gordon Blair .
His occupation on his marriage to Jane Norval is simply Clerk.
His occupation on his daughter Georgina Lorimer Blair's marriage is Mercantile Clerk. Did her mother tell her that was her father's occupation ??   
But....his wife's first daughter Jane Schwabe gives his occupation as Law Clerk on her marriage certificate.

I tend to think Gordon knew of Jane Norval's child to Henry Schwabe (still wonder about Herman  ) . He must have met Jane not long after the baby's birth. I have wondered if both worked for Schwabe - Jane as a housekeeper / maid. Gordon as a Clerk.
Jane Norval & Gordon Blair marry on June 7th 1850.
Georgina Lorimer Blair is born November 15th 1850. James Norval (Jane's brother perhaps?) and Thomas Scott , (Jane's sister's husband) are witnesses. 

I too wonder where Georgina Lorimer Blair's name comes from. Sounds very much like she was named after a George Lorimer. Reputed father? Employer? Other relative? Good friend? We may never know.

I wonder how the Drummond family came to integrate Jane Schwabe/Norval into their family?
Was the "adoption" , obviously informal back then, arranged by Schwabe or Jane. Maybe the Church was involved. Certainly the Drummonds seem to have been well aware of Jane's reputed parentage and her mother's marriage to Gordon.

Goodness lot's of speculation. And still no death for Jane Norval/ Blair

Looby

[isobelw]

I note there was a Free Church Minister in Barony, Glasgow at the time called  Lorimer (John Gordon L). Just feasible that she was named for him, as Gordon and Jane seem to have had links to the Free Church ( married by a Free Church minister).
Isobel

[majm]

Reading JM's speculative theories has made me venture to post one of my own.

What if Gordon Blair in Scotland never was a Law Clerk or a Writer?

     Excellent      and chronologically, we don't actually learn that Henry was deceased until the 1874 marriage of Jane Drummond SCHWABE, so Henry, the ship owner, may have been in and out of Glasgow and may have sought out Jane NORVAL, and shown some 'proof' to Gordon that the 1851 marriage was negated or at least voidable.  Henry may not have died until after (months/years, a  decade or more  ) Gordon married Jane NORVAL.   

Now I am wondering about the reputed father v punitive father/s for Jane's sons .   If Jane's public claims to be Mrs Gordon BLAIR (newspaper cutting posted earlier), were not challenged, then what was Scottish law... 

You see, in NSW law at that time, a married woman's children were 'fathered' by her husband, regardless, unless she registered them and declined to provide the required information about her husband and their marriage.  (So by extension, women could simply wear a wedding ring, attend a registry office and give their details and the details of their husband (fictional or otherwise), their marriage place/date, and register their baby.   In NSW, this process was Informant driven, from 1856 to 1918ish without pre-printed forms for the informant's use, so oral questions posed by clerks in part time positions as deputy registrars.     Pre 1856, no civil bdm process in NSW - researchers rely on parish registers for baptisms, burials, weddings.

What was Scottish law at that time - 1850s ?  Would Jane's children be legally the children of her husband .... is that part of the reason for the father being nominated as James Gordon BLAIR ....

All speculations of course....   

JM