Author Topic: Gordon Blair - Mystery? or Not!  (Read 34476 times)

Offline OZScot

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 133
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Gordon Blair - Mystery? or Not!
« Reply #441 on: Friday 28 April 17 00:49 BST (UK) »
I think your general assumption that people entering the Belvedere wouldn't come out alive is doubtful to say the least, what you don't know you don't know. The hospital (now gone) was in Parkhead, not the Calton.
  Paupers in that quarter of the city were buried in the Eastern Necropolis which had a contract from the Poor Inspector, these new cemeteries opened following the scandal of irregular burials during the cholera epidemic of the 1840's,

http://www.glasgowhistory.co.uk/Books/Tollcross&Dalbeth/TollcrossCHapters/BelvedereHosp.htm

http://archives.gla.ac.uk/gghb/collects/hb65.html

Skoosh.

Hi Skoosh,
When I was looking for the Belvidere Hospital I tried to find it on maps as close to 1871 when it could have been her when she entered the Belvidere. I wasn't able it get a map with an exact date.
The best one I could find that established exactly where it was is on the link below.▼

http://maps.nls.uk/view/74400475

It's a cracking 1912 Bartholomew survey and shows the hospital on the banks of the Clyde at the U-shape bend of the river. Parkhead above London Road. I looked for an earlier one now knowing where it was situated. Wikipedia gave some more information that it was originally - 'Belvidere Hospital, built on the Belvidere estate which extended from London Road to the river Clyde.'▼

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkhead

I looked for the Belvidere estate on an earlier map and I found it on an 1858 Ordnance Survey.
There it is right at the U-shape bend of the Clyde and on the banks - Low Belvidere & Belvidere Cottage with sprawling gardens south of the London road down the river Clyde.▼

http://maps.nls.uk/view/74427695

Written across it in large Capitals is CALTON. First ward. North of the London road is Parkhead.
That's why assumed it was in Calton. The map is 12 years before it's building. the other is 1912, 42 years after so it probably was originally Calton then changed at some stage as they do Parkhead.

http://maps.nls.uk/view/82891812

The above link ▲ is much later again 1935 showing a huge sprawling hospital which is then in the Parkhead Ward written across it. Nice map! Not a place I'd like to have visited however.

Thanks.





Ewing, McKinnon, Sproul, Sanderson, Douglas, Quince, Lyell, Sharp.

Offline majm

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 25,385
  • NSW 1806 Bowman Flag Ecce signum.
    • View Profile
Re: Gordon Blair - Mystery? or Not!
« Reply #442 on: Friday 28 April 17 02:42 BST (UK) »
Sue’s comments re Gordon and Julia’s marriage being formalised in 1876 are worth following up, so here’s some possibles for the Elusive death registration of Jane NORVAL in the UK.   I am also of the strong view that families kept in contact, and that Grandmothers kept up good correspondence. I have recently finished a decade long project sorting out private family papers which, according to a request in my own Gran's will, are now fully conserved, catalogued and ready to be added to the family's existing holdings at The Mitchell Library.  NO, NO, NO, not the one in Scotland, but THE MITCHELL, the one in Sydney NSW, now part of the NSW State Library.    ::)  ::)  ;D  ;D  (Yes, hiding the family scandals in a Public Library makes good sense !  The existing holdings for this particular family include correspondence across several generations from 1800s to 1860s, mainly between female first cousins in NSW and Cornwall) 

Free bmd has index references for several possible Jane BLAIR deaths in Lancashire (Georgina Lorimer BAMBER and family moved to Lancs by 1869 when Catherine Louisa at St Catherine’s (C of E) at Edge Hill, Liverpool was baptised on 18 May 1869

https://www.freebmd.org.uk/

December Qtr 1869
Jane BLAIR, 38, W. Derby, GRO 8B/421

June Qtr 1872
Jane BLAIR 46, W Derby, GRO 8b/322

December Qtr 1894
Jane BLAIR, 59, W. Derby, GRO8b/265

I have NOT looked for these lasses on any Lancs Census.  It is entirely possible that none of these lasses were connected in any way to the Qld Gordon BLAIR.

https://familysearch.org/wiki/en/Walton_on_the_Hill_St_Mary,_Lancashire_Genealogy 


http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/


I have not yet found time to concentrate of searching passenger lists for Jane's possible migration to Australia.  Even if she did, if she travelled steerage she may just be a number. 

http://www2.sl.nsw.gov.au/archive/events/exhibitions/2010/onehundred/100-years/DS-Mitchell-and-the-Mitchell-Library.htm

JM
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
Random Acts of Kindness Given Freely are never Worthless for they are Priceless.
Qui scit et non docet.    Qui docet et non vivit.    Qui nescit et non interrogat.   
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
I do not have a face book or a twitter account.

Offline Rosinish

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 14,239
  • PASSED & PAST
    • View Profile
Re: Gordon Blair - Mystery? or Not!
« Reply #443 on: Friday 28 April 17 03:36 BST (UK) »
https://www.freebmd.org.uk/

December Qtr 1869
Jane BLAIR, 38, W. Derby, GRO 8B/421

June Qtr 1872
Jane BLAIR 46, W Derby, GRO 8b/322

December Qtr 1894
Jane BLAIR, 59, W. Derby, GRO8b/265

JM

According to the 1855 birth, Jane was 23 yrs i.e. born 1832

This would give a birth of 1831/32

December Qtr 1869
Jane BLAIR, 38, W. Derby, GRO 8B/421 - most likely if it's her (in my opinion)


This one would give a birth for c1825

June Qtr 1872
Jane BLAIR 46, W Derby, GRO 8b/322


This one would give a birth for c1835

December Qtr 1894
Jane BLAIR, 59, W. Derby, GRO8b/265

Annie

South Uist, Inverness-shire, Scotland:- Bowie, Campbell, Cumming, Currie

Ireland:- Cullen, Flannigan (Derry), Donahoe/Donaghue (variants) (Cork), McCrate (Tipperary), Mellon, Tol(l)and (Donegal & Tyrone)

Newcastle-on-Tyne/Durham (Northumberland):- Harrison, Jude, Kemp, Lunn, Mellon, Robson, Stirling

Kettering, Northampton:- MacKinnon

Canada:- Callaghan, Cumming, MacPhee

"OLD GENEALOGISTS NEVER DIE - THEY JUST LOSE THEIR CENSUS"

Offline isobelw

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,566
  • Gran & Granpa Clotworthy
    • View Profile
Re: Gordon Blair - Mystery? or Not!
« Reply #444 on: Friday 28 April 17 08:30 BST (UK) »
Jane jamieson Norval was born 30th November 1829 (Familysearch). She is age 11 in 1841 ( with her family in Saltmarket, Glasgow) and 21 in 1851 ( with Gordon in Clyde Street, Glasgow).
Isobel
Clotworthy, McMahon, Saunderson, Culley (Ireland & Scotland)
Weatherall, Greer (Ireland & Scotland)
Hamilton, Johnston, Dawson, Rennie, Wright (Clackmannanshire)


Offline carolineasb

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 331
    • View Profile
Re: Gordon Blair - Mystery? or Not!
« Reply #445 on: Friday 28 April 17 08:47 BST (UK) »
Just a wee note about a legal connection!

Herman's daughter, Ottilie married a John McLaren who was an Advocate, in 1868. He became a High Court Judge and, therefore a Lord, and she, a Lady. From googling, I note that their daughter, Ottilie, became a Sculptor and trained by Rodin!

I had a nosey (my nose was bothering me!) at Herman's and August/a/e's wills and Herman's DC. Herman died in Helensburgh with the DC just saying married but not who to. The Informant was the Doctor who certified his death - odd!

His Will left everything to his wife or, whom failing, his children with a list of people to help his wife as executrix.

August/a/e's Will is quite strange. She left everything to her 2nd daughter, Mathilde, "in acknowledgement of her unremitting and tender care for her invalided parents". Then "To my equally beloved eldest daughter and her respected husband, John McLaren, Advocate, I leave a Mother's blessing and heartfelt thanks for all their considerate actions of kindness and love, by which my last year's of life were made to pass more comfortably than they otherwise could have done." I thought this a strange sentence for a will which was written 9 years before she actually died but maybe she thought she was at death's door.

The next bit is quite strange too - "I shall die in the hope that moral as well as bodily strength may be given to all the members of our family circle to work out for themselves such a life of usefulness as will keep their memory respected by all with whom they come in contact during their earthly pilgrimage.

No note of any witnesses to the Will although apparently signed by her but a note that their was an envelope with "My Will" written on it.  The Will was docquetted in the usual way by Mathilde (her 2nd daughter) and then witnessed by her brother-in-law, John McLaren as a JP (haven't checked when he became a Lord). I would have thought that strange for him to witness when he is mentioned in Will??

Anyway, perhaps again no help at all but interesting documents.
Tannahill:  Ayrshire, Renfrewshire
Mulgrew/Milgrew:  Glasgow
Canning: Renfrewshire

Offline Forfarian

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 15,150
  • http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ruz/
    • View Profile
Re: Gordon Blair - Mystery? or Not!
« Reply #446 on: Friday 28 April 17 09:23 BST (UK) »
No note of any witnesses to the Will although apparently signed by her but a note that their was an envelope with "My Will" written on it.  The Will was docquetted in the usual way by Mathilde (her 2nd daughter) and then witnessed by her brother-in-law, John McLaren as a JP (haven't checked when he became a Lord). I would have thought that strange for him to witness when he is mentioned in Will??
When you say 'docquetted', what exactly do you mean?

You said there were no witnesses to the will, and it would perhaps have been odd if Mathilde or John had been asked to witness it, as they were either beneficiary or executor.

Assuming that Mathilde and John McLaren acted jointly or separately as Executors, they would have had to go to court with the will to have it confirmed (confirmation being, in Scots law, the equivalent of probate in English etc law). It is perfectly normal for a beneficiary also to be an executor.
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline carolineasb

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 331
    • View Profile
Re: Gordon Blair - Mystery? or Not!
« Reply #447 on: Friday 28 April 17 09:42 BST (UK) »
Sorry Forfarian, I didn't explain.

I meant that the original Will was docquetted by Mathilde i.e. a particular paragraph that has to be written by an Executor/Executrix on a Will and signed when lodging an Inventory with the Commissary Office when applying for Confirmation.  Of course, what is in the Commissary Register on SP is just a handwritten copy by the Commissary Clerk or his deputies.

The docquet states "Edinburgh 25th June 1883. Referred to in Oath to Inventory of the Personal Estate of the late Mrs Augusta Bandmann or Schwabe of date 25th June 1883 signed M A Schwabe/John McLaren JP"

Nowadays, it's a declaration rather than an Oath, I believe.
Tannahill:  Ayrshire, Renfrewshire
Mulgrew/Milgrew:  Glasgow
Canning: Renfrewshire

Offline Skoosh

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,736
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Gordon Blair - Mystery? or Not!
« Reply #448 on: Friday 28 April 17 10:23 BST (UK) »
Cheers Oz, that Calton thing will be a political ward boundary. I think there were quite a few nurses died working in the Belvedere with infectious diseases. They were very brave lassies!

Skoosh.

Offline Ruskie

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 26,199
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Gordon Blair - Mystery? or Not!
« Reply #449 on: Friday 28 April 17 11:14 BST (UK) »
...I have previously posted the index info re the two probate files (Gordon and Julia) and the 1864 land file.     So may  I suggest our OP makes a request of the Australia Board asking for a lookup at Qld Archives, and with a link to this thread.  http://www.rootschat.com/forum/australia/

JM

I am willing to visit the Qld State Archives.  :)

As I have only partially been following this thread, may I ask if someone can please direct me to the post giving the information I need to complete this lookup. (reference details etc)

JM, you mention probate files - I have not looked up probate files before, however I have looked up wills. Does anyone have Gordon's will or death certifixate? (I wonder if it names a previous marriage and children)  ;)