Author Topic: John Morgan, died 1941 @ Heidelberg, husband of Frances Wall  (Read 6590 times)

Offline sparrett

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 18,351
    • View Profile
Re: John Morgan, died 1941 @ Heidelberg, husband of Frances Wall
« Reply #45 on: Tuesday 29 August 17 06:01 BST (UK) »
To be candid, I don't know. It certainly looks that way and that Charles is not born a Morgan. There is not yet a record with Frances Wall attached to fhe Morgan name.
 Rodney53

None of us are certain of the above.  Please bear in mind the name I am citing is HALL, not WALL (as you say, you have only seen it in hand written notes- the confusion would be easy)

 Speculating -with a little logic applied-there was not a marriage between John MORGAN and Frances because she was still married to James DEAN.

His war service history is indexed  at NAA and shows he was apparently on active service at the time of the conception of Charles John, thus, father not named on the birth record.
He was a market gardener of Narre Warren and Francis (sic) was his NOK.

The pair appear together on the Electoral Roll and I will type the details in a moment.

He died in 1954, after the death of John MORGAN, so there was not opportunity for a late marriage through widowhood for Frances.
Obituary James DEAN of NARRE WARREN 1954. To Springvale.
No wife mentioned but some children are correct for the recorded births.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/218508357
 
James -Official Discharged from the services in July / August 1919
Joined up May 1916
A welcome home in May 1919
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/218508357

Sue
 
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline sparrett

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 18,351
    • View Profile
Re: John Morgan, died 1941 @ Heidelberg, husband of Frances Wall
« Reply #46 on: Tuesday 29 August 17 06:26 BST (UK) »
Electoral Roll, Victoria
1915 to 1924
Narre Warren
DEAN, James, farmer
DEAN, Frances, HD

1928
Narre Warren
DEAN, James. Labourer

We must not assume that Frances DEAN's name at that address means she was actually living there ::)

Sue
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline sparrett

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 18,351
    • View Profile
Re: John Morgan, died 1941 @ Heidelberg, husband of Frances Wall
« Reply #47 on: Tuesday 29 August 17 07:34 BST (UK) »
Anyhow, to round of your query about 3 sons to John and Frances MORGAN.
Obviously the death certificate for John MORGAN  would answer a lot of queries.
Up to you.

However, the death notice for Ronald which you mention you have read, states brother of Charles and Vern.

Vern would probably be Vernon Roland MORGAN who died in 1999 and is buried with his wife at Lilydale. he was a resident of Lilydale

This man is not to be confused with Verden/Verdun James DEAN a son from the possible marriage of Frances. He appears on the electoral roll with a woman  of the surname in Heathmont, and is mentioned as a son in the obituary for James DEAN

Sue

 
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Rodney53

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 149
  • Owen Wynne Morgan, my 3 x great-grandfather
    • View Profile
Re: John Morgan, died 1941 @ Heidelberg, husband of Frances Wall
« Reply #48 on: Tuesday 29 August 17 16:57 BST (UK) »
Many thanks Sue. This is far more compelling and ths name of Wall was both handwritten and with no supporting evidence/record. Hall seems much morely likely her name. Wall had been the only/best option when I began this thread. Thank you so much for your efforts and insights.
Rodney53.


Offline Rodney53

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 149
  • Owen Wynne Morgan, my 3 x great-grandfather
    • View Profile
Re: John Morgan, died 1941 @ Heidelberg, husband of Frances Wall
« Reply #49 on: Friday 01 September 17 16:43 BST (UK) »
Hi Sue,
Just noticed your request for this information.
Death notice of Henry Morgan gives details of his marriage to Alice Phelps.
Hope this helps.
Rodney53

Offline Rodney53

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 149
  • Owen Wynne Morgan, my 3 x great-grandfather
    • View Profile
Re: John Morgan, died 1941 @ Heidelberg, husband of Frances Wall
« Reply #50 on: Friday 01 September 17 21:48 BST (UK) »

1871 256 WAYMOUTH Owen Lewis parents Bryant and Margaret Mary (Morgan) aged 13

1950 5493 WAYMOUTH Owen Lewis WAYMOUTH Unknown and Margaret Mary (Morgan) aged 75

**********
I've just seen this contribution of yours through clearer eyes. Thanks for spotting this.
I am in touch with one of the Waymouth line and will ask her to clarify it.
Rodney53

Offline Rodney53

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 149
  • Owen Wynne Morgan, my 3 x great-grandfather
    • View Profile
Re: John Morgan, died 1941 @ Heidelberg, husband of Frances Wall
« Reply #51 on: Friday 01 September 17 22:07 BST (UK) »
What evidence do you have that this is your William? A common name is William Morgan with no middle name and did he remarry?

Marriage:

1873 3837 MORGAN William to CLELAND Rubenia MORGAN

*********************
Hello Jamjar,

The church records have this William Morgan as son of Owen Morgan, so I'm pretty sure he is ours.

Rodney53

Offline Jamjar

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 10,727
  • Scottish GGGrandmother-Grace MORRISON née JARDINE
    • View Profile
Re: John Morgan, died 1941 @ Heidelberg, husband of Frances Wall
« Reply #52 on: Saturday 02 September 17 00:39 BST (UK) »
Hi Sue,
Just noticed your request for this information.
Death notice of Henry Morgan gives details of his marriage to Alice Phelps.
Hope this helps.
Rodney53

No mention of an Alice Phelps in your attached notice, Rodney.

Jamjar
Atkinson; Badier; Cameron; Grant; Howie; Jardine; Jenkins; Kerr; Lawardorn; Lee; Linton; Lonie; McConnell; Morgan; Morrison; Murphy; O'Leary; Paton; Pratt; Robb; Williams

Offline Rodney53

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 149
  • Owen Wynne Morgan, my 3 x great-grandfather
    • View Profile
Re: John Morgan, died 1941 @ Heidelberg, husband of Frances Wall
« Reply #53 on: Saturday 02 September 17 04:13 BST (UK) »
Thanks, Jamjar ... my blunder. Wrong attachment.

This one has Alice Phelps as his wife.

It also mentions a son in his 20's ... can't find him anywhere in the records either.

Cheers.

Rodney53