Author Topic: Missing a Marshall born 1885/6 Camberwell  (Read 6094 times)

Offline watsonbrown

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Re: Missing a Marshall born 1885/6 Camberwell
« Reply #36 on: Monday 26 November 18 18:00 GMT (UK) »
Thanks Jon.  Very fascinating.  Very sad, but of course the legacy exists...  Sadie by all accounts seems to have come from a rich family and really helped James out.  And tragically it would be the case their houses and neighbourhood would be completed devastated by both world wars.  What a life to have lived, I could never imagine it.

It's a poignant thought that James may literally never have known his actual birthday or date of birth, hence the discrepancies.

Could we get a birth record from Camberwell?  I tried looking for each year 1884-7 on ancestry.co.uk but could not find anything.  Is it possible/likely they weren't born/registered in Camberwell and this was a false assumption or something, as was his age?  Did also consider it maybe registered as Peckham or Southwark but I'm really not having much luck.

Any indication of a third/other siblings?  Could there be a cause for deserting, eg. another marriage, rape, prostitution?  I can but wonder...

Marshall, London Paddington and Poplar
Ogborn, London Lewisham and Kennington
Weller, London Lewisham and Dartford (Kent)
Watson, Essex Southend, Rochford and Wickford
Brown/Browne, Northamptonshire Peterborough
Bukhari, London East Ham

Offline louisa maud

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Re: Missing a Marshall born 1885/6 Camberwell
« Reply #37 on: Monday 26 November 18 18:09 GMT (UK) »
Yes, it is most likely James did not know where he was  born,  it is laborious looking through ONS for a familiar mother 's maiden name for Alice and James , I have listed quite a few but nothing familia so far
Well done to Jon

Louisa Maud
Census information is Crown Copyright,
from  www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Granath Sweden and London
Garner, Marylebone Paddington  Northolt Ilford
Garner, Devon
Garner New Zealand
Maddieson
Parkinson St Pancras,
Jenkins Marylebone Paddington
Mizon/Mison/Myson Paddington
Tindal Marylebone Paddington
Tocock, (name changed to Ellis) London
Southam Marylebone, Paddington
Bragg Lambeth 1800's
Edermaniger(Maniger) Essex Kent Canada (Toronto)
Coveney Kent Lambeth
Sondes kent and London

Offline avm228

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Re: Missing a Marshall born 1885/6 Camberwell
« Reply #38 on: Monday 26 November 18 18:41 GMT (UK) »
Alice Daisy Marshall registered Dec qtr 1884 Lambeth.

MMN Mills

So far no James

Louisa Maud

Alice Daisy Marshall (born 24 or 25 Oct 1884) isn’t the abandoned child - she’s a daughter of John Thomas Marshall and Alice Mills who married in Lambeth Jun qtr 1884.

She is with parents:

In Lambeth in 1891 as Alice Marshall: RG12/406/138/29
In Brixton in 1901 as Alice D Marshall: RG13/481/64/7
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)

Offline louisa maud

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Re: Missing a Marshall born 1885/6 Camberwell
« Reply #39 on: Monday 26 November 18 18:48 GMT (UK) »
Of course the parents might never have  married

Louisa Maud
Census information is Crown Copyright,
from  www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Granath Sweden and London
Garner, Marylebone Paddington  Northolt Ilford
Garner, Devon
Garner New Zealand
Maddieson
Parkinson St Pancras,
Jenkins Marylebone Paddington
Mizon/Mison/Myson Paddington
Tindal Marylebone Paddington
Tocock, (name changed to Ellis) London
Southam Marylebone, Paddington
Bragg Lambeth 1800's
Edermaniger(Maniger) Essex Kent Canada (Toronto)
Coveney Kent Lambeth
Sondes kent and London


Offline watsonbrown

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Re: Missing a Marshall born 1885/6 Camberwell
« Reply #40 on: Monday 26 November 18 23:59 GMT (UK) »
Thanks Jon again for your insightful breakthrough, I do believe it be the case.  Such a sad revelation, but not unsurprising.

Switching my attention now to Alice.  I wonder if she married, went on to have children, etc.

I found a Baptism record for an Alice Mary Ann Marshall, parents James and Mary Ann, born 18th Dec 1883, baptised 6th Jan 1884 at St Pauls Hammersmith.  There is also an address of 9 Elsic Street (reading 19th century handwriting not my strong point).  This is presumably a Hammersmith/Fulham address.

Separately, I found a Poor Law Removal/Settlement medical record, dated 13/5/85 referencing the same 9 Eldwick Street (handwriting!!)  It says:
Mary Marshall aged 22, wife of James Marshall, married at St Lukes(?) church 3 years.
2 children, James John 2+half born Stratford, and Alice Mary Ann 1yr4months.
Husband was living at the time of marriage at 10 Chance Street Stratford, 1year.

...some handwriting I cannot read but seems to say husband left Beaumont near Colchester in 1878, parents born in Beaumont.


So, I noticed James was said here to have been born in Stratford here not Camberwell, but would explain the lack of Camberwell birth records and I now hope to either link everything up, or find it's another family thus ruling them out... and not sure the link between Hammersmith and Camberwell.  James may or may not have been born in Camberwell but presumably there's a link to that area somehow.

But I am tired now and must sleep!!
Marshall, London Paddington and Poplar
Ogborn, London Lewisham and Kennington
Weller, London Lewisham and Dartford (Kent)
Watson, Essex Southend, Rochford and Wickford
Brown/Browne, Northamptonshire Peterborough
Bukhari, London East Ham

Offline Kay99

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Re: Missing a Marshall born 1885/6 Camberwell
« Reply #41 on: Tuesday 27 November 18 05:16 GMT (UK) »
Fascinating success  ;D  I think the marriage of James and Mary is on Anc

6 Aug 1882    St Jude, Bethnal Green, Tower Hamlets,
James Marshall  age 21 Labourer - father William Marshall - Labourer
Mary Ann Hummerston age 19 - father Thomas Hummerston - Weaver
Witnesses William Hummerston and Mary Ann Marshall - All signed

Kay

Added -The Beaumont Colchester clue ? https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VFFT-HSZ
 

Offline avm228

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Re: Missing a Marshall born 1885/6 Camberwell
« Reply #42 on: Tuesday 27 November 18 06:23 GMT (UK) »
Birth registrations:

James John Marshall, mother’s maiden name Hummerston, Dec qtr 1882 Bethnal Green 1c 240

Alice Mary Anne Marshall, mmn Hummerstone, Mar qtr 1884 Fulham 1a 225

also

Rose Elizabeth Marshall, mmn Hummerston, Dec qtr 1885 Camberwell 1d 856
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)

Offline avm228

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Re: Missing a Marshall born 1885/6 Camberwell
« Reply #43 on: Tuesday 27 November 18 07:06 GMT (UK) »
Mary Ann Hummerston, mmn Higgins, birth reg Mar qtr 1863 Bethnal Green 1c 311.

Baptised 9 September 1866 at Bethnal Green - parents Thomas & Charlotte Ann.
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)

Offline avm228

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Re: Missing a Marshall born 1885/6 Camberwell
« Reply #44 on: Tuesday 27 November 18 07:12 GMT (UK) »
James Marshall, mmn James, birth reg Jun qtr 1860 Tendring* 4a 210 (*covers Beaumont).

He was a “late lamb” for his parents!

William Marshall married Mary James, Dec qtr 1837 Tendring.

A postem on FreeBMD says the marriage took place at St Leonard’s, Beaumont-cum-Moze, 16 Dec 1837.
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)