Seeking Parents of Thomas Frederick William Lewis Hastings born 1864 St Pancras

[NicolleGoldman]

I wonder whether you need to re-examine the theory that Harriet was Harriet BURRELL?

I suggest she may in fact be Harriet DACK, baptised 13 Jan 1824 at Tydd St Mary - parents Francis and Sarah.

Marriage 1: Harriette DACK, spinster, to William LEWIS, a silversmith, 20 Feb 1849 St Marylebone.

Marriage 2: Harriette DACK, “spinster”, to Henry HASTINGS, a labourer, 6 Apr 1863 St Luke’s Somers Town (St Pancras)

...

Hmmm.  I like how the names fit.  BUT...
I had ruled out Harriet Dack because there is a significant difference in ages... "my" Harriet Hastings was fairly consistent in her sources as being born 1832-ish (not 1824):

christening was in 1831 but in August so would appear one year younger in Censuses
1841 Census says 1831, Lincolnshire
1851 Census says 1832, Tyd St Mary, Cambridgeshire
1857 Marriage says 1832 (age 25, Spinster)
1861 Census says 1832, Gott Tydd, Lincolnshire
1871 Census says 1832, Tydd Saint Mary, Lincolnshire
1881 Census says 1831, Lydd St Mary, Lincolnshire - with son TFWL Hastings
1891 Census says 1832, Lincolnshire
1901 Census says 1823, Lincolnshire (9 years younger than previous age but in same household with daughter-in-law and grandchildren)

But how else to explain widow Harriet Smith being in her own 1881 Census (as someone pointed out in an earlier post)?  Maybe Smith is just such a common name that it's someone else.  And there were a number of Harriets born around 1832 in Tydd St Mary.

And the 1863 marriage source with Henry Hastings would fit an 1864 birth -- both in St Pancras.  But there was no birth registration for a Hastings son with mother Dack, and no illegitimate birth of a Dack son (at least, not that I found).
 

[avm228]

As I said upthread, I think the most likely scenario regarding Thomas is that he was Thomas Stride, informally adopted either through the workhouse or through local channels after he was orphaned. Formal statutory adoption was not introduced until 1927.

I don’t see any evidence that Harriet née Burrell ever lived in London and I believe she is the Harriet Smith found in Sculcoates in 1881 (indeed, you had already found her in Sculcoates in 1871).

There may have been several Harriets born in Tydd St Mary, but the only one who married a Henry Hastings is Harriet(te) née Dack.

If Harriet Hastings’ inaccurate age in the 1881 and 1891 censuses is the only problem then it’s really not a huge problem - ages in censuses are often inaccurate especially if the person concerned is not well-known to the householder (in 1891 she was one of four lodgers, and her birthplace was also slightly inaccurate- “Skegness”).

We see that Harriet reverted to something closer to the truth when in her daughter in law’s household in 1901.  If she is the Harriet Hastings whose death was registered Dec qtr 1907 Islington aged 84 then again that is pretty much consistent with her true age.

It’s a pity it is so difficult to find Harriet née Dack in 1851 & 1861 (presumably as Lewis) and 1871 (as Hastings).

[jonw65]

Outside possibility in 1851?
Harriet Lewis, 27, born Wisbech, in Newington
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGK3-FZ7

Son William, 2, but birth place not right?
Birth
LEWIS, WILLIAMS  (probably should be William)      
Mother's Maiden Surname: DACK 
GRO Reference: 1848  D Quarter in LAMBETH  Volume 04  Page 297

[avm228]

Outside possibility in 1851?
Harriet Lewis, 27, born Wisbech, in Newington
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGK3-FZ7

Son William, 2, but birth place not right?
Birth
LEWIS, WILLIAMS  (probably should be William)      
Mother's Maiden Surname: DACK 
GRO Reference: 1848  D Quarter in LAMBETH  Volume 04  Page 297

I like it!  Tydd St Mary is close to Wisbech (a bit closer than it is to Skegness, even).

And Harriet Lewis is a “jeweller’s traveller’s wife” - William Lewis was a silversmith on the marriage, so same field of work.

The date of the birth registration means that the son William was born before the 1849 marriage.

[NicolleGoldman]

Fascinating thread thread!   Just a thought - has anyone found him on the 1939 Register??  We can't post details but there is a Thomas W Hastings of about the right age with a relevant occupation that would be worth looking at   

Also found  a death of a Thomas W Hastings in Bromley, Kent in 1949 aged B4 that would fit this man

Kay

Yes, interesting! Age possibly a year out but it would be interesting to compare the birthday (day/month) with that of Thomas Stride (see my reply #18 ).

I can't see the 1839 register, but Thomas Frederick William Stride would have been born either very early in 1864 or very late in 1863.  His GRO entry is Jan-Feb-Mar 1864 St Pancras, and his mother was buried on 3 Jan 1864.  I'm guessing she died in childbirth, or of something contagious shortly after because her 10-year old daughter was buried on the same day.

[NicolleGoldman]

I managed to see the 1939 Register (I went to a FamilySearch Library -- I had no idea that existed until someone mentioned it in this thread, so thank you!)... I think it proves that Thomas Frederick William Lewis Hastings and Thomas Frederick William Stride are NOT the same person.

The birth date for Thomas W Hastings is 11 Dec 1864.  He has a paper-related occupation which fits with Thomas Frederick William Lewis Hastings in Censuses and other sources, and for whom we can not find a GRO birth registration.

The birth of Thomas Frederick William Stride was registered Jan-Feb-Mar 1864.  His mother Louisa Raffan (married to Phillip Stride) was buried on 3 Jan 1864.  So she couldn't have been around 11 months later to have a son on 11 Dec 1864.

The only way the "same person" idea still works is if the 1939 Register has a mistake and Thomas W Hastings' actual birth year was 1863 (not 1864).  Then we could say his mother could still be Louisa Raffan and he was born on 11 Dec 1863 but the Stride household was taken with serious illness and was not able to register the birth until the first quarter of 1864 when they also registered the deaths of the mother and ten-year old sister. 

If I were to order the GRO birth registration for Thomas Frederick William Stride and it showed a birth date of 11 Dec 1863, would that be "proof" they were the same person?
Is there another way to find the exact birth date for Thomas Frederick William Lewis Hastings (given I can't find his GRO birth entry)?

[avm228]

As I said in the message you quoted, it would be interesting if Thomas Stride shared the same birthday (11 December) as Thomas Hastings, even if the year is 1863 rather than 1864.  One year out on a birthdate is not an uncommon finding by any means, and certainly wouldn’t be proof that they are not the same person (even if the converse is that consistency on a birthdate isn’t conclusive proof that they are the same person). 

In fact you already have records for Thomas Hastings whuch are consistent with being born late 1863/early 1864 rather than late 1864/early 1865 (e.g. his age of 17 in the 1881 census) so it is perfectly plausible that the date recorded in the 1939 Register is a year out.

It is unlikely but not impossible that you will find another source for what Thomas Hastings thought was his birthdate.  Usual sources for exact birthdates in available records include:

Birth certificates
Baptism records (searched, not found)
School enrolment records (searched, not found)
Military records (none relevant)
Travel documents/passenger lists (none found - presumably the passport inherited doesn’t contain a birthdate?)
1939 Register (you have seen)
Death certificates (1969 onwards) - he died too soon.

[avm228]

One further avenue which you might consider is a genealogical DNA test in case it shows up a relationship between you and a descendant of the Stride family or a family genetically related to the Strides.  But it is of course much more expensive than a certificate, and there is no guarantee at all that any Stride (or related) descendant will have tested and will be in the database.

(Ditto re the Dack family).

[avm228]

NB It’s perfectly possible that Thomas Stride’s birthday is in December.  The registration window is 6 weeks following the birth, so a December birth was often registered in January whether or not the mother was ill (and we know that Louisa was probably taken ill, though it’s always possible that she and her daughter died another way e.g. in an accident).