Correction on 1939 Register - Florence E Williams/Humphrey/Buchan

[Talacharn]

Thanks chempat, I know I should purchase copies of certificates, but at present I am not working and late last month I bought 4, with another yesterday. It now looks like I need to buy another 4 at least, which may have to wait a few weeks. I accept, throughout my search, I made assumptions, which have been wrong, as many times as they have been right. It is something I have tried to stop, but it keeps happening.

1939 Register . 18 Blue Street, Carmarthen, Carmarthenshire
Martha J Evans . 30 Sept 1870 . Married . Incapacitated
Florence E Buchan (Humphreys) . 17 Feb 1912 . Married . Fish Hawker
Record Officially Closed
Agnes M Dunbar (Williams) . 9 Jan 1926 . Single . At School
Record Officially Closed
Record Officially Closed
Record Officially Closed
Record Officially Closed
William Healey . 18 Feb 1868 . Married . General Labourer
RG101 / 7203F / 013 / 9 . Letter Code XDCH

Martha Jane was born Richards, married Thomas Williams, then married Daniel Evans, and mother to:
Martha Jane Williams who married Aran Evans, and I cannot find either in the 1939 Register.
Thomas Williams who married Maggie Brown (Grandparents)
John Williams, who died WW1
Violet May Williams, who married Albert Finch in 1930 and died 1931 . Aged 25
Florence E Williams,

Agnes M Dunbar/Williams, born 1926. On Free BMD or Family Search, looking through Wales, England and Scotland:
Jul-Sep 1926 . Agnes M Williams . mmn Sparrow . Pontypridd . 11a . 1053
Oct-Dec 1926 . Agnes M Williams . mmn John . Swansea . 11a . 1752
There is a marriage: Kenneth A Dunbar and Agnes M Williams . Jul-Sep 1945 . Carmarthen . Volume 11A . Page 3029 . Line Number 85. If the right Agnes M, it should name her father.

The image seems to be them in the Falkirk newspaper. It says eldest daughter, but from the census records, she was the youngest of 5. As for the birth certificate of Florence E . mmn Williams, I need to read it as there could a name for the father, even if they were not married. I think she might be one of the closed records. As for the others, I have no idea. My family did not talk about those of the past. Although my father knew, finding he had a brother who died in infancy, and an uncle who was killed in WW1 was a surprise to me. How Florence E and Agnes M fit within my family I have no idea at present.

[chempat]

Just putting the fqamily in 1911 in Haverfordwest
Mornas Williams   41
Martha Jane Williams   40
Martha Jane Margaret Elizebeth Williams   17
Thomas Williams   16
John William Williams   14
Violet May Williams   4

[Talacharn]

That is the family in 1911. Mornus should read Thomas.

Violet May married Albert Finch . Jan-Mar 1930 . Carmarthen . Volume: 11A . Page: 1593 . Line Number: 126. She is buried with her mother and two sisters in St. David’s, Carmarthen. The inscription says; Violet May Finch . Died 20.09.31 . Aged 25.

Agnes M Williams born in 1926, is the same year as my father (although my father has died, she could still be alive). For her to be a Williams, with mmn Sparrow or John, the father must be Williams. It could not be John Williams who died in WW1. The only other male was Thomas my grandfather. By then there were 4 children, with Thomas Malcolm born in 1933 who died in infancy. But there is a 10 year gap between John and Violet. I wondered if there was a relative who escaped census records. I went through the GRO for Williams births in Haverfordwest with mmn Richards, but only males. There were 5 and looking deeper, I eliminated 3 from census records, leaving my grandfather Thomas and John.

Pontypridd and Swansea are feasible, as my grandparents married in Merthyr Tydfil during WW1, with him working down the mines, she was in service. They were cousins, both having links to Haverfordwest and Laugharne. But in 1926 both were living in Laugharne, the children being born there. At that time, life was hard and many from the area went across the water, then travelled by train to the mining areas. At present, Pontypridd and Swansea do not make sense and I have no idea who the father could be. Because of that, I have ordered two certificates; the marriage of Agnes M Williams and Kenneth A Dunbar (Jul-Sep 1945) as that should give her father’s name and occupation; and the birth certificate of Florence E. Williams (Jul-Sep 1928), may name the father.

There is a birth: Kenneth A Dunbar . mmn: Allen . Jan-Mar 1925 . Narberth, Pembrokeshire . Volume: 11A . Page: 2232 . Line: 139

[chempat]

Agnes M Williams could be an illegitimate daughter of Violet May Williams.

[chempat]

Found Agnes M and Kenneth A on ER's in Carmarthen in 2004

This looks like Agnes's will information:
Agnes Maria Dunbar died 11th December 2010, grant and will, probate obtained 16th March 2011 at Cardiff.

[Talacharn]

There are two causing confusion.
Agnes M Williams 1926 and the second Florence E Williams 1928.
I agree, Agnes M could be illegitimate, which would explain Williams, as I also suspect Florence E is too. They would not be the first I have found in this family.

From the GRO, Violet May Williams Jul-Sep 1906 and Florence Edith Williams
Jan-Mar 1912.

The mother of Agnes M (1926) could be Violet May (1906), though at a push, it could also be Florence E (1912), who would be 15/16. I feel the mother of Florence E (1928), will be Florence E (1912). My family liked to reuse names within the following generation. Their mother Martha Jane had a sister Agnes Richards.
It will be a week before the certificates arrive.

[Talacharn]

On FreeBMD, there is no Agnes M Williams registered in Carmarthenshire or Pembrokeshire in 1926, and none having mmn Williams in England or Wales. The only ones that could fit have mmn Sparrow or John - Pontypridd or Swansea. There are marriages for both Agnes M Williams. In Swansea it was to David D Evans (1952) and Pontypridd to Thomas W Scurlock (1948) in the same towns.
The marriage certificate should provide some information.

[chempat]

You have quoted from the 1939
Agnes M Dunbar (Williams) . 9 Jan 1926 . Single . At School

If she were born on 9th January 1926 her birth should be recorded in the 1st quarter of 1926, not the September or December quarters.

Possibly she was recorded just as Agnes or Maria, and changed names later.

e.g.
Births March quarter  1926
Mary Williams mmn  Williams    Carmarthen    11a   2174

[Talacharn]

I find it strange, that the only information I have, is from the 1939 Register; a date of birth, name and updated, a marriage to Dunbar. It would seem the marriage is correct, but where was she born/registered? From newspaper articles, especially the reporting of funerals, there were relatives spread throughout South Wales, from Pembrokeshire to the Rhondda.

Just throwing this one out there:
If the birth was registered under the father’s name, but they never married, the family may have continued to use Williams.
Birth: Agnes M Davies . Jan-Mar 1926 . Carmarthen . mmn Williams . Volume: 11A . Page: 2170 . Line: 67
In 1945, would you need to provide a birth certificate to marry?