Author Topic: Bevis Marks Records II and V - Look up request please  (Read 1225 times)

Offline JustinL

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Re: Bevis Marks Records II and V - Look up request please
« Reply #9 on: Thursday 21 May 20 10:29 BST (UK) »
Hi Emma,

It is true that Ashkenazi Jews would regard it as bad luck to name a child after a living person. However, that custom does not seem to have applied to the use of secular names. That is to say, that Isaac and his son Isaac did not necessarily have the name Hebrew name.

Who did Isaac senior marry and when?
Where did they live?
Do you know when and where the Isaacs died?

Justin

Offline Bookbox

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Re: Bevis Marks Records II and V - Look up request please
« Reply #10 on: Thursday 21 May 20 10:42 BST (UK) »

Offline JustinL

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Re: Bevis Marks Records II and V - Look up request please
« Reply #11 on: Friday 22 May 20 12:45 BST (UK) »
Thanks for that link, Bookbox, to earlier post.

Isaac married out of the Jewish community, so there would be no reason for him to adhere to its naming customs and traditions.

A gravestone in Jewish cemetery would have provided his father's name.

Justin


Offline sandiep

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Re: Bevis Marks Records II and V - Look up request please
« Reply #12 on: Friday 22 May 20 20:53 BST (UK) »
well had a look at the great synagogue as well but no Isaac around the dates
tried for other children from the link but no luck there either did find Abraham on GRO or at least one around date quoted that says MMN Myers  perhaps Isaac wasn't Jewish or perhaps they were all borm overseas just put English on the census
think I am waffling cos a bit baffled!! ::)

Just come across Julia Myers b 1836 married a Henry Barnett 1861 at Great Synagogue which means Ashkenazi. will have another look tomorrow   By way father was Benjamin deceased Julias jewish name would be Yetta
Pender, Raphael,Lambert,Digby,Stent,
Dowell,cornish,mulley,Death,Rosier,
East End,Suffolk,Essex,Cornwall,Devon,London,  middlesex, hertfordshire                                      Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline emjsw

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Re: BEVIS MARKS RECORDS II and V - Look up request please
« Reply #13 on: Friday 22 May 20 22:26 BST (UK) »
The Bevis Marks records are not online. I believe one RootsChat member has personal copies of some volumes. They may be able to help if they see this thread.

Thank you very much for the heads up 😊
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Offline emjsw

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Re: BEVIS MARKS RECORDS II and V - Look up request please
« Reply #14 on: Friday 22 May 20 22:27 BST (UK) »
Have you considered contacting the synagogue?

https://www.sephardi.org.uk/bevis-marks/bm-contact/

Thank you very much for the link 😊
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Offline emjsw

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Re: Bevis Marks Records II and V - Look up request please
« Reply #15 on: Friday 22 May 20 22:53 BST (UK) »
Hi Emma,

It is true that Ashkenazi Jews would regard it as bad luck to name a child after a living person. However, that custom does not seem to have applied to the use of secular names. That is to say, that Isaac and his son Isaac did not necessarily have the name Hebrew name.

Who did Isaac senior marry and when?
Where did they live?
Do you know when and where the Isaacs died?

Justin

Dear Justin,

Thank you for getting back to me. That is interesting that it is possible that Ashkenazi Jews may have named their children after a living relative in terms of secular names as it means Ashkenazi might be a possibility again. I don't know how I might find their Hebrew name.

Isaac snr married 4 times the second wife Bestsy Martin was the one he had a family with, they married July 1849 in West Bromwich by Banns but I am not sure where. He was a widower and a confectioner, he says his father was Benjamin Myers.

In 1858 he was declared bankrupt but the press article said he had been a journeyman confectioner travelling to places like Coventry and Northampton so maybe he married his first wife there. He had also been a master confectioner later and was and sold beer and wine.

10 Mar 1872 Marriage to Sarah Ann Theaker (nee Ryley), she was a widow. Marriage at Walsall. This time he gives his father as Isaac Myers but the profession is the same sealing wax maker.

10 Oct 1878 Marriage - Isaac a widower, confectioner age 49 remarries on 21 October 1878 to Margaret Clark age 32 a spinster, in Walsall, St John.  Both of Long Street. His father is listed as Isaac Myers, diseased, occ. sealing wax maker.

So 2 fathers named, I need to find his first marriage to see what he named his father then.

It seems to be the same Isaac as his profession is not common, his father's name may change but the fact he made sealing wax does not and in 1881 he is with Margaret and daughter Rachel Julia in windle.

Death - 1905 Death. He died 4 years later in the workhouse. MYERS, Isaac. 76 years, 9 Mar 1905, Abode Union Workhouse Wednesfield, Labourer, Grave 7026, Reg. No. G4/13239

I have not had chance to go to the graveyard yet and although there is a Jewish section at Merridale I don't think it opened until 1965??

I will post further information including why I think he is Jewish a little further in in the thread.

Best wishes
Emma
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Offline emjsw

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Re: Bevis Marks Records II and V - Look up request please
« Reply #16 on: Friday 22 May 20 22:54 BST (UK) »
Related thread (for information)

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=792699.0

Thank you very much for posting the link 😊
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Offline emjsw

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Re: Bevis Marks Records II and V - Look up request please
« Reply #17 on: Friday 22 May 20 23:02 BST (UK) »
Thanks for that link, Bookbox, to earlier post.

Isaac married out of the Jewish community, so there would be no reason for him to adhere to its naming customs and traditions.

A gravestone in Jewish cemetery would have provided his father's name.

Justin

Hello,
I am not sure what faith the Martins had but the fact that their marriage was by Banns and some of their children were baptised suggest not as you rightly say. I am not sure if it was because they were not practising or lack of a local synagogue or maybe just making sure the family were in the parish register (as some people of other faiths did to ensure they could get poor relief /safe guard against being moved on) .
I know that his son Isaac was Jewish from accounts of relatives but he seems to have married a outside of his faith.
I know Isaac snrs Burial details but do not know if he has a head stone or whether he had a Jewish Burial. I need to visit the cemetery when lock down is over.

Thanks very much for the information.
Best wishes Emma
Sweetland (Chard/Yarcoombe/Honiton)
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Williams (Yorkshire/Conisborough)
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Draper Smith (Bow Brickhill/Woburn Sands)
Smith (Woburn Sands)