Simeon Brim (b1887) of Wrestlingworth. Marriage or death?

[TadlowNewell]

Dear Rootschatters

I have now pulled together all available information I can find on Simeon and Edgar Brim - listed below - and I think that on balance we can conclude they are one and the same person. Maybe he was baptised Edgar but during his childhood was called Sim to please his grandfather 'Sim2' or some such. Note we know of Sim3 only from two Census records - 1901 when he was aged 4 and 1911 when he was 14. In neither of these censuses is 'Edgar' mentioned. i.e. the two records fit together nicely in this respect. 

This merging also means Ann Brim now has nine children, as she reported in the 1911 census, not ten.

There are just two pieces of information which still worry me:

1. My uncle Edward, son of Emma Charlotte Brim, who was born 1909, identified (when he was aged 90) a photo I have as being of Simeon "He was called Sim'. I guess he only knew 'Sim' during his early childhood.   

2. The press cutting of Sim2s burial in 1931 mentions Simeon living at Ardley (sic) Yorkshire while the 1931 Electoral register has 'Edgar' living at Elland. Elland and East Ardsley are about 8 miles apart, south-west of Bradford. Indeed Edgar was living at 6 New Park Road, Elland per all Electoral Registers from 1915 to 1932, never at East Ardsley. Maybe this use of 'Simeon'  at the funeral is again just to 'please' the late Sim2....

Anyway, I have merged the two entries in my database. My next step is to try to identify where
"Allan Simeon Frank Brim Freeman" born 1908 fits in. Currently it seems he he is son of Simeon/Edgar and of one Ann Freeman but I intend to explore a bit more. 

"Simeon" (known as 'Sim')
     Born      No GRO Regn found
     Bapt.     not found
     1891 Cen. In Wrestlingworth, enum. with parents, aged 4
     1901 Cen. In Charles Sq, Wrestlingworth enum. with parents, aged 14
     1911 Cen. Not found. Not enum with parents.
     Mar. Reg. None found
     Death Reg None Found
     1931      "Simeon Brim of Queensbury, Yorks" in newspaper burial report of Simeon Brim ("Sim2")

"Edgar"
     Born      Q4 1886  GRO Ref: 1886 D Quarter in BIGGLESWADE Vol 03B Page 343
     Bapt.     Not found
     1891 Cen. Not found. Not enum. with parents
     1901 Cen  Not found. Not enum. with parents
     1911 Cen. Aged 24. Platelayer with South-Eastern Rly Co.,
               Boarding with Wilf and Rose Newell, Charlton, Kent (brother-in-law of Emma Charlotte)
     Occ.      2 Oct 1911  Joined West Yorks Police age "25 2/12" i.e. born Aug 1886

     Mar. #1   7 Dec 1912 to Helen Marion Johnson, Brighouse Halifax, Yorkshire (Cert. image avail)
                          both resident at 21 Elland Rd, Brighouse.
                          per 1911 census Helen, born Windsor, was servant in Kensington, with sister.
                          Helen died aged 32 Q2 1923 Keighly Reg. District, Yorkshire.

     1923 Elec. Reg. Living at 6 New Park Rd Elland, West Yorks.
     Mar. #2   3 Apr 1929 to Gladys Broadbent at Hayley Mill, Halifax, Yorkshire.
     1931 Elec. Reg  Living at 6 New Park Rd, Elland, West Yorks.
     1934 Elec. Reg. Living at Wentworth, West Yorkshire

[TadlowNewell]

Thank you for the update

When Allan Simeon Frank Brim Freeman married Hilda Bullard he named his father as Edgar Brim - Police Constable though this was struck through - presumably because he was illegitimate.

Dear Rosie,
I wonder if you could give me a source for this info. I can find references to the marriage in Indexes, but not the actual certificate image, which I would like very much to see.

Colin

[janan]

The certificate is on Find My Past. It is mis-indexed as 1881 and gives Allan's dob as 1857, goodness knows why!

Re your earlier comment that Simeon is said to be living in Ardley in the newspaper article about his dad's funeral. It is actually says Queensbury, which you do note yourself further down. Elland is in South Queensbury ward.

Jan

[TadlowNewell]

The certificate is on Find My Past. It is mis-indexed as 1881 and gives Allan's dob as 1857, goodness knows why!

Re your earlier comment that Simeon is said to be living in Ardley in the newspaper article about his dad's funeral. It is actually says Queensbury, which you do note yourself further down. Elland is in South Queensbury ward.

Jan

Thanks for this. I can see a birth certificate on FindMyPast, at first link below, which would be interesting - is father recorded and, if so, who, but frustratingly I don't have a subscription. I can also see two marriage records for Hilda M EW Bullard at the second link. I'll keep looking.

Colin

https://www.findmypast.co.uk/search/results?firstname=allan&firstname_variants=true&lastname=freeman&keywordsplace=wrestlingworth%2c%20bedfordshire%2c%20england&keywordsplace_proximity=5&yearofbirth=1908&yearofbirth_offset=2&sourcecountry=great%20britain&sid=999

https://www.findmypast.co.uk/search/results?firstname=hilda&firstname_variants=true&lastname=bullard&keywordsplace=therfield%2c%20hertfordshire%2c%20england&keywordsplace_proximity=5&yearofbirth=1908&yearofbirth_offset=2&sourcecountry=great%20britain&sid=999

[TadlowNewell]

Here, for posterity, is a summary of the info I have collated re the nine children of Simeon and Ann.

Colin

1. David William
     Born      23 Oct 1873 per 1939 register but no GRO birth regn found (by Debra)
     Bapt.     21 Dec 1873 Wrestlingworth
     1881 Cen. Wrestlingworth, with parents, Aged 7, Scholar
     1891 Cen. Wrestlingworth, with parents, Aged 17
     1901 Cen. Blast Furnace Labourer, East Ardsley Yorkshire.
     1911 Cen. Blast Furnace Labourer Pig Iron, East Ardsley Yorkshire.
     Mar.      19 Feb 1898 to Priscilla Miller (b 1874 - 1936) at Lofthouse, York
     Children  Sam Oxley Miller (1895-) Mildred may (~1899-), Evelyn A. (1900-), Lilian (~1903)
     1931      In burial notice of Simeon (sim2) ...of Ardley, Yorks
     1939 reg. Retired Blast Furnaceman, Morley, West Riding, Yorkshire.
     Died      Q4 1952 Spen Valley, West Riding, Yorks

2. Alfred
     Born      Sep 1875 GRO Ref: 1875 D Quarter in BIGGLESWADE Vol 03B Page 338 (mmn BLANN)
     Bapt.     26 Sep 1875 Wrestlingworth
     Died      a few days later in Oct 1875

3. Rose Elizabeth
     Born      Q1 1877 GRO Ref: 1877 M Quarter in BIGGLESWADE Vol 03B Page 372 (forename Rosa; mmn BLANN)
     Bapt.     8 Apr 1877, Wrestlingworth
     1881 Cen. Wrestlingworth, with parents, aged 7, Scholar
     1891 Cen. Wrestlingworth, with parents, aged 14
     Mar.      Q1 1898 to Albert Edward Humberstone (1873-1954) 1911 Census 'Thatcher'
     Children: Hilda (~1898), Elsie M. (~1899), Marjorie Evelyn (1908)
     Died      Q2 1948, Biggleswade Reg'n District

4. Ernest
     Born      Q1 1880 Wrestlingworth
     Died      Q1 1880 Wrestlingworth

5. Emma Charlotte
     Born      11 Jul 1883 Wrestlingworth GRO Ref: 1883 S Quarter in BIGGLESWADE Vol 03B  Page 338
     Bapt.     23 Sep 1883
     1891 Cen. Wrestlingworth, with parents, aged 7
     1901 Cen. Charles Sq, Wrestlingworth with parents, aged 17
     Mar.      29 Apr 1909 Wrestlingworth to Albert Edward Newell (1883-1974)
     Children: Edward (1910-2007), Bill (1914-1984), Bessie (1915-1982)
     Died      11 Nov 1918 (Armistice Day) of Spanish flu in Barrington, Cambs
     Buried    Barrington Churchyard.

6. Simeon Edgar
     Born      Q4 1886  GRO Ref: 1886 D Quarter in BIGGLESWADE Vol 03B Page 343. Named 'Edgar'
     Bapt.     Not found
     1891 Cen. In Wrestlingworth, enum. with parents, aged 4, as 'Simeon'
     1901 Cen. In Charles Sq, Wrestlingworth enum. with parents, aged 14 as 'Simeon'
     1911 Cen. Aged 24. Platelayer with South-Eastern Rly Co. as 'Edgar',
               Boarding with Wilf and Rose Newell, Charlton, Kent (brother-in-law of Emma Charlotte)
     Occ.      2 Oct 1911  Joined West Yorks Police age "25 2/12" i.e. born Aug 1886

     Mar. #1   7 Dec 1912 to Helen Marion Johnson, Brighouse Halifax, Yorkshire (Cert. image avail)
                          both resident at 21 Elland Rd, Brighouse.
                          per 1911 census Helen, born Windsor, was servant in Kensington, with sister.
                          Helen died aged 32 Q2 1923 Keighly Reg District, Yorkshire.

     1923 Elec. Reg. Living at 6 New Park Rd Elland, West Yorks.
     Mar. #2   3 Apr 1929 to Gladys Broadbent at Hayley Mill, Halifax, Yorkshire.
     1931 Elec. Reg  6 New Park Rd, Elland, West Yorks.
     1931      "Simeon Brim of Queensbury, Yorks" in newspaper burial report of Simeon Brim ("Sim2")
     1934 Elec. Reg. Living at Wentworth, West Yorkshire

     1936      Cutting from Mexborough & Swinton Times 04 December 1936
               Retirement PC Edgar Brim, Brunswick Street, Thurnscoe retired from force
               after 25 years. Native of Bedfordshire. Spent most of service in and
               around Halifax, been in Thurnscoe 4 years. Of a quiet & reserved disposition
               he took little part in public life of Thurnscoe. He has gone with his wife to
               live at Sprotburgh Park.

     1939 Reg. 33 Park Rd, Doncaster. Retired Police Constable (+ Gladys Unpaid Dom duties)
     1946 Reg  33 Park Dr. Don Valley
     Died      6 Jun 1960 at 28 Higgin La, Slouthowram, Halifax, West Riding, Yorkshire
               per Probate record; Effects to widow Gladys
               Gladys died 26 Sep 1964 in nursing home at Ilkley Yorks (per probate)

7. Lilla
      Born:    Q3 1889  GRO Ref: 1889 S Quarter in BIGGLESWADE Vol 03B Page 347
      Died:    Q3 1889  GRO Ref: 1889 S Quarter in BIGGLESWADE Vol 03B Page 190

8. Alfred William
     Born      Q3 1890  GRO Ref: 1890 S Quarter in BIGGLESWADE Vol 03B Page 335 (forename Wilfred)
     Bapt.     1890
     Died      Q4 1891

9. Frank A.
     Bapt.      6 Apr 1894, Wrestlingworth 
     1901 Cen. Charles Sq Wrestlingworth, aged 6
     1911 Cen. Charles Sq Wrestlingworth, Single, Farm lab.
     1939 Reg. 1 Hat
     Mar.      Q1 1919 to Florence Amy Fowler of Hatfield (1897-1965)
     Children: Alec (1920-1984) and Simeon Peter (1931-2016)

[janan]

The marriage certificate is here
https://www.findmypast.co.uk/search/results?firstname=allan%20simeon%20frank%20brim&firstname_variants=true&lastname=freeman&keywordsplace=therfield%2c%20hertfordshire%2c%20england&keywordsplace_proximity=5&sourcecountry=great%20britain&sid=999

3rd one down, as I said it is mis-indexed as occurring in 1881 and gives Allan's year of birth as 1857, but the certificate is correct for the 1932 marriage. You can buy credits to view records so don't have to have a subscription.
If you want to see his birth certificate you would need to order from the GRO as it is only the index that is shown on Findmypast.

Jan