Arthur William Ince/Inch/Ines born abt 1856 Belchamp St Paul

[BlandTree]

Arthur William INCE was born in Belchamp St Paul in about 1856 according to the 1911, 1901& 1891censuses.  The 1911 census states that his wife is Mary (Mary A in 1901), that they have been married 33 years (so about 1878) and have had 8 children, all living.  The GRO gives the maiden name for all 8 children as GARROD.  Arthur William’s wife was born in Hackney in all 3 censuses.

Problems: 
I cannot find the marriage and
I cannot find either Arthur INCE (or any credible variation), or Mary A INCE (or GARROD) in the 1881 census.

The water is muddied by what appears to be Arthur William INCE’s brother Charles (born about 1866), marrying Lillian/Lillie GARROD (who appears to be Mary A GARROD’s sister), in Bromley Registration District in 1894.  Bromley covers Chislehurst and both Arthur William & Charles live in Chislehurst and all their 11 children are born there!

I have struggled with this for over a week! Any advice would be very welcome!

Malcolm

[suzard]

1881
Lane Cottage Chislehurst Kent
A Inche Head M 24 Gardener domestic Belchamp Essex
Mary A wife 22 London
Edith daughter 1 Bromley Kent
RG11 857 66 9

transcribed as Jonah

Suz

[carol8353]

1881
Lane Cottage Chislehurst Kent
A Inche Head M 24 Gardener domestic Belchamp Essex
Mary A wife 22 London
Edith daughter 1 Bromley Kent
RG11 857 66 9

transcribed as Jonah

Suz

Well found Suz, I spent ages looking for them in 1881 last night,with no luck!

[carol8353]

1871 in Belchamp ST Paul Essex.

 RG10/1714 Folio 22 Page 11


Walter Ince   35 Ag Lab
Sarah Ince           37 Straw Plaiter
Arther Ince   14
Catherine Ince   12
Matilda Ince   10
Charles Ince   5
Emma Ince   1

[BlandTree]

Thank you, Suz & Carol,

Your 1881 census is clearly what I was looking for but had failed to find! I had tired of trawling through dozens of  ‘Jones’ when I used Christian names but I had omitted to stipulate Chislehurst as the residence.  Instead I used Belchamp & London.  Silly me!

I had the 1871 census for Walter Ince and noted that both Arthur & Charles had the right birth dates but I have come across bigger coincidences and I wanted more proof!  Admittedly everything that I know, or have been told by kind RootsChat researchers, seems to fit but I still want the marriage certificate!  That would clinch it!

As has been mentioned, they may not have married!  I have that on my maternal side when my great grandmother was ‘married’ on my grandfather’s birth certificate but did not actually marry my gt-grandfather until several years (& three children), later!  I had not thought of checking for a much later marriage for the Inces; I must do that!  Presumably that, too, would be while living in Chislehurst and probably in a registry office!  Charles married in 1894.  I wonder if Arthur did?!

Many thanks for all your hard work & sleuthing.  If you do happen to find the marriage I shall be eternally grateful!

Malcolm

[Gibel]

Charles married Lillie Garrod on 3 May 1894 ( list just states Bromley) his father Walter her father Thomas.

I’ve now found the marriage on free reg

3 March 1894
St Peter and St Paul Bromley


Charles Ince bachelor 28 gardener 26 North Rd Bromley father Walter labourer
Lillie Garrod spinster 26 Hammelton Rd Bromley father Walter Garrod tailor

Witnesses Edith Ince and Thomas Hart

I remember posting Arthur’s burial but can’t find the post now, however His wife Mary was buried rapt St James North Cray on 7 May 1929 her address Vale Pascal Cottages.

Are there 2 threads going on this family or am I imagining that I’ve posted something about them elsewhere?

[BlandTree]

So sorry, Gibel.  Because Arthur grew up in Essex but lived mostly in Kent I posted in both counties.  I apologise to all who might have been confused by that but I thought that people who specialised in one county might not look at what was posted in another. I hope that is not going against RootsChat policy.

I had Charles', marriage from FreeBMD but had not looked at the full certificate.  What you have told me adds credence to the Walter Ince parentage for Arthur William because I am almost convinced that Arthur & Charles are brothers. 

Lillie's father being Walter has sent me back to the drawing board.  I had thought that her father's name was Thomas, who was also a tailor in Homerton in 1861 with a daughter called "Mary Ann E Garrod".  So you have also helped me because I found a Mary Ann E Garrod's marriage in Hackney but when I looked at the full certificate it was not to Arthur Ince, or any name like it!  (Tipton if my memory serves me!) So now I am on the trail of Walter Garrod! 

Hackney & tailors.  Hmmm!  I wonder if these were Jewish?  If so, I am not at all familiar with how to trace Jewish weddings in the 19th century.  Clearly Charles' marriage was C of E but Arthur's might not have been.  Or maybe it was & was delayed while Walter G was alive & influencing his daughters.  I have certainly come across that when Catholics & Protestants have wished to marry!

Very may thanks for your continued help,

Malcolm

[Gibel]

My apologies I’ve just checked freereg and Lillie’s father is Thomas.

It would be worth you looking at freereg yourself as there are quite a few of your Ince family mentioned.

Once again my apologies.

[BlandTree]

No need to apologise, Gibel, the misunderstanding was partly my fault!  You did give Thomas as the father of Lillie at the top but I focussed on the middle portion of your post where the typo occurred.
Actually it made me go back to the evidence and I found other little snippets that I had not recorded earlier!

Anyway, I am extremely grateful to you for doing all this for me and the typo does not change that!

Malcolm