Ethel Quin

[IgorStrav]

Again with the proviso this is the correct marriage, Winifred Quin and George Wills appear to have had three daughters - Winifred (1924) who appears I think on the 1939 as Winifred Wills with an Annie Wills aged 32; Ethel as we know; and Agnes who was born in 1929

Winifred Quin had a few siblings so it's possible that the three children were split up after their mother died and looked after by various parts of the family.  Still investigating....

[derekjwatson25]

Many thanks everyone I think we know (99.9%) that she took her mother’s maiden name (why?) to her land army registration and marriage to Glenister.
I found a birth for a Geoffrey G Baird born in London in 1952 but mother’s name was a Grant. There is another Geoffrey J Baird born in Ealing / London in 1953 and mother’s name shon as Baird. If the South Africa voyage in November 1953 is correct then she left another child with his father ?

[IgorStrav]

Many thanks everyone I think we know (99.9%) that she took her mother’s maiden name (why?) to her land army registration and marriage to Glenister.
I found a birth for a Geoffrey G Baird born in London in 1952 but mother’s name was a Grant. There is another Geoffrey J Baird born in Ealing / London in 1953 and mother’s name shon as Baird. If the South Africa voyage in November 1953 is correct then she left another child with his father ?

In reply #54 Carole has comprehensively ruled out the South African Baird family - who come from Peterhead, nr Aberdeen.  And the ages of the children shown on that voyage don't work with Ethel's 1928 birth.

I think the South Africa story is a red herring - it would be interesting to find out exactly how it arose.  It's certainly not unusual for a firm story to be told within a family history to be debunked when it's finally investigated.

I'm not saying Ethel didn't travel abroad - but not on the Braemar Castle in November 1953.


In terms of finding Ethel Wills - not having much joy, though now have quite a large Quin/Wills family tree I'm building.  The Quin family had a lot of early deaths.  No sign of Ethel being brought up with any of them so far as I can see, but maybe I need to go back another generation from Winifred Quin Wills' siblings.


Added:  I think it's worthwhile getting the birth certificate for Ethel Wills as shown
Ethel Wills registered Mar qtr 1928 Salford RD
Mother's Maiden Name:   Quin
Volume  8d p 373

Just to see if it is indeed the right one, and also if I've got the marriage right.

[derekjwatson25]

It’s strange the the daughter has the name of a ship and passenger number but maybe she got a wrong link. I will ask her how and where she got the South Africa information from and has it been verified.

[IgorStrav]

It seems to me, Derek, that possibly someone else researching could have come across that very tempting Mrs E Baird reference on the passenger list of the Braemar Castle, and has tried to attach it to Ethel.

Obviously Ethel's daughter was very young when her parents split - it does sound as if it might have been a hasty wedding - and potentially the Glenister family didn't think much of Ethel Quin.

Difficult to gauge what did go on then - many examples of families trying to 'protect' children by telling stories which explained things in a kind way, rather than with the actual truth.

Ethel was very young indeed when she had her daughter, after all.   Sad on both sides.

[IgorStrav]

And further to add I have now explored the Wills, Quin and associated families that I found from the marriage I quoted.

I've not tracked down Ethel anywhere, called any other surname, in the 1939 as yet.

I obviously have a lot of details, but not worth going into until/unless the birth certificate does reflect a 19/1/1928 birth for Ethel Wills, which might confirm that she IS Ethel Quin.

Just one other point for Derek, who asked whether a birth certificate would need to be produced for a marriage - the answer is no.  The Registrar asks you to tell the truth, and believes what you say.
On the Glenister marriage, Ethel would have had to say that she had her parents' permission to marry as she was under age. 

[CaroleW]

Derek

Please read replies #54 & 57.  There is absolutely no way Ethel is the passenger on the Braemar Castle

[CaroleW]

A quick summary of things to be considered

Purchase of 1959 marriage cert for Geoffrey to check his marital status
March qtr 1959 Dartford 5b 1081

A search for an English divorce for Geoffrey & Ethel between 1953-1959

Have a look at the March qtr 1959 marriage for Ethel Quin as detailed in my reply #44

[IgorStrav]

Derek -

I am sending a DM to you following some research Carole and I have done which relates to an Ancestry tree by a direct relative of the Wills family in Salford.

You will recall we theorised that Ethel Wills, MMN Quin, might possibly be Ethel Quin.

Please keep us posted with the results of certificates etc you order.