Author Topic: Gravelena Lee - Cardiff  (Read 189 times)

Offline Nanalinz

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Gravelena Lee - Cardiff
« on: Monday 05 April 21 22:02 BST (UK) »
I am trying to sort out the family of Delia Lee, born in Cardiff Jul 1875 who married Ellis Davies and went to America in 1904. Family tradition says her parents were Samson Lee and Gravalena Williams however, I am beginning to think that was backward and perhaps they were Samson Williams and Gravalena Lee. I am not finding much of anything with the name Gravalena and you would think that name would stand out! Any help would be most welcomed.

Offline osprey

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Re: Gravelena Lee - Cardiff
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 06 April 21 13:19 BST (UK) »
I've looked up records for part of this family before, so there may be someone else looking for her.

death reg Gravalina Williams 37 sept qtr 1890 Pontypridd vol 11a pg 257

age given on death reg not accurate!
Baptism 11 May 1847 in Llyswen, Breconshire for Gravalina daughter of Samson, gipsy, & Elderiffee Lee.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KCVB-C14

1861 census
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M76B-R19

here's an earlier post
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=827648.msg6918629#msg6918629

and this one
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=814423.54
Cornwall: Allen, Bevan, Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, Gwyn, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Airey, Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Hewitt, Kellett, Kemp, Stephenson, Tebb

Offline osprey

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Re: Gravelena Lee - Cardiff
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 06 April 21 16:20 BST (UK) »
baptisms for some of the children
Trelech a'r Bettws, Carms 13 April 1868 Agnes, age 13 months, daughter of Samson, basket maker, & Gravelinia Williams, address Trelech, chiefly Neath.
same parish 25 Jan 1869 Isabella, daughter of Samson, basket  maker, & Gravelinia Williams Llwynrhyd Trelech (pro tem)
Sketty 31 Dec 1878 Elvira daughter of Sampson, basket maker, & Gravilina Mumbles Road Common
same parish 27 Dec 1880 Rebecca daughter of Samson, basket maker, & Gravelina Williams Common, Sketty Road
Cornwall: Allen, Bevan, Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, Gwyn, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Airey, Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Hewitt, Kellett, Kemp, Stephenson, Tebb


Offline Talacharn

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Re: Gravelena Lee - Cardiff
« Reply #3 on: Monday 07 June 21 16:01 BST (UK) »
Nanalinz,
Samson Williams is linked to the Boswell/Scamp families.
On Romany Genes, Samson and his brother Nelson are listed as Scamps. From marriage and where Nelson died, there is no doubt Samson Scamp and Samson Williams are the same person. The family also contained Boswells, but as Scamp and Boswell were associated with trouble, they went by the name Williams, which also blended better within Wales.

Samson and Nelson, also mixed with Edwin Evans, with the three often in trouble.
A GIPSY PRETENDING TO BE A GOVERNMENT INSPECTOR. Nelson Williams, Edwin Evans, and Samson Williams, three gipsies, were charged at the Llanelly sessions on Wednesday, with obtaining a horse by false pretences.
Articles from different newspapers:
https://newspapers.library.wales/view/4473717/4473721/62/
https://newspapers.library.wales/view/3388925/3388930/92/
https://newspapers.library.wales/view/3506426/3506429/39/
https://newspapers.library.wales/view/4355883/4355888/14/
Talacharn

Offline Talacharn

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Re: Gravelena Lee - Cardiff
« Reply #4 on: Friday 11 June 21 12:00 BST (UK) »
Nanalinz,
In the 1881 Census, there is Diliah Williams, a daughter of Samson, who is with Gravalina. Age 9, that would give a birth year of 1871/2.

1881 Census: Dyffrynclydach, Neath . Glamorganshire, Wales
Samson Williams.Head.M.33.Cwmavon, Glamorganshire
Gavelina Williams.Wife.F.33.U K, Staffordshire, England
Agnes Williams.Daughter.F.15.Caerffili, Glamorganshire
Isabella Williams.Daughter.F.12.Haverfordwest, Pembrokeshire
Diliah Williams.Daughter.F.9.Swansea, Glamorganshire
Penenboke Williams.Son.M.8.Aberavon, Glamorganshire
Henora Williams.Daughter.F.5.Llanelly, Carmarthenshire
Elvira Williams.Daughter.F.2.Sketty, Glamorganshire
Rebecca Williams.Daughter.F.0.Sketty, Glamorganshire
RG11 . Piece/Folio: 5344/108 . Page 32
Digital Folder: 101775467 . Microfilm: 101775467 . Image: 00746

I found this Christening:
Delilar Bethania Williams . Female
12 Jan 1871 . Abergwili, Carmarthenshire . Father: Samson Williams . Mother: Mary
Microfilm: 105125 . Originating System: ODM . Indexing Batch: C09015-1
With a mother called Mary, could this be an illegitimate child of Samson, then raised with his family? There is no GRO birth registration for her, though I cannot find registrations for most of the other children either. Abergwili is not that far from Swansea.

Some of the children:
Agnes Williams . mmn Lee . Jan-Mar 1867 . Pontypridd . Volume 11a . Page 295
Isabella Williams . mmn Lee . Oct-Dec 1868 . Pembroke . Volume 11a . Page 755
Annora Williams . mmn Lee . Jul-Sep 1876 . Llanelly . Volume 11a . Page 756

Marriage: Ellis Davies . Leah Williams
Jul-Sep 1903 . Pontypridd . Volume 11a . Page 988

As Scamps moved into Wales, it seems they changed their name to Williams.
http://romanygenes.com/scamp-family/4528685510
5. Samson Scamp sp. Gravelini Lee
4. Nelson Scamp, killed at Swansea

The two facts above are true for Samson and Nelson Williams.
July 1906: The funeral of the octogenarian gipsy, Nelson Williams, accidentally killed in collision with a cyclist, on the Mumbles-road last Friday.
I had thought Samson and Nelson were brothers, but the numbering system used for the Romany Genes list, suggests Nelson was a generation older. It appears, Nelson was around 20 years older, which would fit his death in 1906, being an octogenarian. But there were very large families, when child births spanning more than 20 years was possible, maybe different mothers.

As for Gravalina’s family:
Samson and Elijah Lee were brothers and the sons of Samuel Lee from England. Samson with Alderaife Buckland had 13 children: Shandras, Senbee, Alafair, Gravalina, Job, Maggonas, Louisa, Esther, Madonna, Charlie, Perrin, Essea and Diana. Elijah Lee with Rosanna Boswell had 11 children: Sampson, Dilaia, Bill, Melvinia, Jane, Tom, Silas, Sophia, Christmas, Llewellyn and John.
http://www.valleystream.co.uk/romany-lee.htm
They are the only ones listed on census records, so they could be more.
Talacharn