Grandparents married in Hull

[Mabel Bagshawe]

No I don’t think Frederick is an Alternative for Joseph.
I think they are two different people

But that Frederick was issued the wrong birth certificate, because I am assuming that Joseph’s birth certificate says “Male”

Added, and Joseph can be followed in England until his death

I too think they are different, but I am confused as uksouthafrica would obviously know their father was called Frederick Warren, but the Hull family's child born in S Africa in 1907 is never known as Frederick, and his stated parents have another younger son called Frederick

OK - are you suggesting that uksouthafrica's father is the son of Arthur and Sophia, but was given an incorrect birth cert with Fred and Elizabeth's details?

[mckha489]

My father Frederick Warren (Batchelor) married Christina Johanna Petronella Conradie 21.9.1940 in Cape Town & died as Frederick Warren Batchelder on 28.10.1962 in Cape Town.

He married as Batchelder

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L9MW-FQ9C?i=185&cc=1935348&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AQ23Q-8RT1

[mckha489]

OK - are you suggesting that uksouthafrica's father is the son of Arthur and Sophia, but was given an incorrect birth cert with Fred and Elizabeth's details?

Yes  . Because, they were born. If not on the same day, at least only days apart.
Batchelor v Batchelder.   Someone searching came across the Batchelor one first, and because it didn’t actually have his name on, assumed it was the correct one.

Of course that theory will be upset if the birth certificate DOES have his name on it!

[mckha489]

I too think they are different, but I am confused as uksouthafrica would obviously know their father was called Frederick Warren, but the Hull family's child born in S Africa in 1907 is never known as Frederick, and his stated parents have another younger son called Frederick

Also, Frederick Warren obviously spent his life in South Africa, and the Hull family just had the brief couple of years there, and then spent the rest of their lives in England. It just doesn’t make sense for Frederick Warren to be their son.

[Mabel Bagshawe]

The other interesting thing is there's a Sydney Warren Bachelder b 1887 in South Africa. Father Arthur, a compositor, mother Catherine nee Blomstein

Frederick and Elizabeth Naomi are baptised as adults,  after their father's death. I wonder if Arthur and Sophia weren't married and they, and Edward, are actually registered under another surname? Might explain Frederick  being given a birth cert for the nearest name to Bachelder, what he thinks would be his birth surname

[mckha489]

Just about to type the very same thing.

[Mabel Bagshawe]

Here's the death of wife no 1: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:7TSL-WRMM

The form of her name might suggest they divorced

[mckha489]

Re the Adult baptisms.
Elizabeth Naomi’s was the day before her death

Burial, address is the same

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QPH7-SCJJ

[Mabel Bagshawe]

Another child- Catherine Sarah b 1890. Father Arthur Asher

I can also see a Harold Asher Bachelder b c1893