Still Looking for Thomas Williams

[osprey]

Also not being noted as deceased doesn't mean he wasn't. The question was name of father & his occupation.

[Talacharn]

Point taken.
I was thinking of other family marriages where the father had died and was noted. With my family, some gave other members of the family rather than their father.

[Talacharn]

This evening I had another look at my paternal line. I read this post again and having said I could not find Thomas Williams in the 1891 census, I looked wider and think I have found him with his son, my great-grandfather.

1891 Census: Taff Street . Merthyr Tydfil, Glamorgan
Richard Richards . 39 (c.1852) . Married . Head . Collier . Cardiganshire
Jane Richards . 39 (c.1852) . Married . Wife . Cardiganshire
Mary Ann Richards . 16 (c.1875) . Daughter . Single . Servant . Glamorganshire
Richard Richards . 13 (c.1878) . Son . Single . Collier . Monmouthshire
Sarah Jane Richards . 6 (c.1885) . Daughter . Scholar . Monmouthshire
Thomas Williams . 55 (c.1836) . Married . Boarder . Collier . Carnarvonshire,
Thos Thos Williams . 24 (c.1867) . Single . Boarder . Collier . Carmarthenshire
Owen Jones . 20 (c.1871) . Single . Boarder . Collier . Carmarthenshire
RG12 . Piece/Folio 4435/ 121 . Page 70

I am sure this census is them. With birth 1836 in Carnarvonshire, I suspect that is wrong from the others listed, but have not seen the original. The birth year is correct. My great-grandfather was born 1869 and the census says 1867, but the other information is correct. I knew there were family in Merthyr, but could not locate them, so this is one lead. When needed, different generations of the Williams family worked as colliers and often in Merthyr. I believe it confirms his parents and my original question, but I still need to trace all listed and how they relate to Margaret Richard.

[osprey]

original has pob for Thos Thos Williams as Llanllifni and for Thomas Carnarvonshire. If it helps, pob for Jane Richards is Talieson (Talysarn?)  and for Richard looks like Treiddol so possibly Tre'rddol.

[Talacharn]

Thanks Osprey, Carnarvonshire makes no sense, but it has to be the right Thomas. Apart from that, everything else about the pair is correct. I feel it an error as the information was collected. In other areas of my tree, I have Carnarvonshire written for Carmarthenshire, but he was born in Cardiganshire and lived in Carmarthenshire.

The 1881 census has the Richards family with Ann Roberts. I was wondering about Tabieson, which now seems to be Talieson. They were not from the Newcastle Emlyn area, so I need to find out more. The 1891 census has opened a whole new chapter and a new area of Wales.

1881 Census: Upper Rank . Llanwenarth Ultra, Monmouthshire . Abergavenny
Richard Richards . 29 (1852) . Head . Married , Talybont, Cardiganshire . Iron Stone Miner
Jane Richards . 29 (1852) . Wife . Married . Tabieson, Cardiganshire
Mary Ann Richards . 5 (1876) . Daughter . Tabiesonoch, Glamorganshire
Richard Richards . 3 (1878) . Son . Govilon, England
John Richards . 0 (1881) . Son . Pwlldu, England
Ann Roberts . 19 (1862) . Single . Aberyswith, Cardiganshire . Domestic Servant
RG11 . Piece/Folio . 5237/31 . Page 9

From both censuses, I have struggled to find a GRO birth for the children. Owen Jones and Ann Roberts are also missing. With such common names it is difficult, but there is an Ann(e) Roberts in 1861 mmn Jones. For Owen Jones born in Carmarthenshire, the only birth I can find is 1871 in Newcastle Emlyn mmn Evans.

[osprey]

that 1881 looks a match. Mary Ann's place of birth is Gilfachgoch in both entries, very mangled on the transcription in 1881.

Birth regs
Mary Ann Richards sept qtr 1875 Pontypridd vol 11a pg 371 mmn Roberts
Richard Richards june qtr 1878 Abergavenny vol 11a pg 66 mmn Roberts
Sarah Jane Richards dec qtr 1885 Pontypool vol 11a pg 123 mmn Roberts

Possible marriage reg
Richard Richards sept qtr 1874 Pontypridd vol 11a pg 529 on same page as Jane Roberts

[Talacharn]

Having looked through my notes it cannot be them. In 1891, I have Thomas Jnr. living with his mother in Laugharne. From the transcription it seemed so good with dates, places and occupations, but information found from the originals made me doubt.

[osprey]

well, at least they're eliminated from your search.

 

[Talacharn]

Thanks for your help. It seemed so good, but there were issues with the transcription, either wrong county, or information missing. Once found, I should also have checked my notes as Thomas Jnr. could not have been with him.

The issue is Thomas and his wife Margaret separated. They are together in 1881. By 1901 he is a Navvy boarding in Llanelly and shortly after he was admitted to the workhouse/asylum where he is listed in 1911. I have been looking for him in 1891. Previously, he was a Mariner/Seaman, so could be away from home when the census was taken, or he was living away from the family, on his own, or with someone else. Having not found him, he must be away from home.

I have tried to find him through newspaper articles, but difficult in establishing if it is Snr. or Jnr. as they made many visits to the local courts. In 1890, one of them was in court in Cardigan for leaving a horse and cart unattended, and a long way to travel from Laugharne. I associate Jnr. more with Haverfordwest, but he was a cockle merchant on the 1891 census. In 1892 he moved to Haverfordwest and married. During that decade I cannot find anything linking Snr. to Laugharne. In 1901, he is reported as absconding from the asylum.

Having hit a brick wall, I was hoping it would generate a path around and lead to his parents.
I will keep looking.