Same man appearing in both German and Danish marriages

[Deirdre784]

I’ve been helping a friend with her family tree and have found a puzzle which i’d love some help with please.

The modern story is all in England (West Derby / Liverpool) and south Wales but her great great grandfather appears to have been born in Germany (he was a ship’s carpenter, and as a result he is never on a census here). He married Ann Finnimore (of Swansea) as John Kalies, in Liverpool in the Jul-Sep quarter of 1863. Their children Sophia Annie, John Henry and Thomas Finnimore were all registered in West Derby between 1865 and 1869.

So far so good. But then ancestry and family search throw up John as being Johann Christian Friedrich Kalies, born Lubeck in Germany in 1836, son of Nicolaus Jochim Friedrich Kalies born 19 Aug 1806, and Margaretha Sophia (or Sophia Margaretha) Hamelau, married in Lubeck on 31 May 1835. But there is a record for a marriage in Copenhagen on 7 Feb 1834 for Nicolaus Jochim Friedrich Klies, one record says he was born on 19 Aug 1806, the other 24 Aug 1806, both in Lubeck, Germany. The surname is  obviously slightly different but otherwise all details very similar; but can this be the same man? No death record offered for his first wife (Christiane Friedericke Kuhnel), but bizarrely there are 2 death records for Nicolaus, one in Lubeck, one in Copenhagen though a few years apart. I seem to have temporarily lost the deaths info and don’t want to risk losing this post, so will post it now and update asap.

I guess i’m reading too much into this and maybe the name is like John Smith in Germany and Denmark. There are quite a few records (marriages, burials and census) online, but I don’t speak any German.

[Deirdre784]

Apologies, posted in a hurry but will tidy up / add sources asap

[Deirdre784]

The 2 deaths are 25 Aug 1843 in Lubeck, Germany, and 3 Jan 1850 in Copenhagen. I think I've convinced myself while writing this, that these must be different men, despite the similarities. 

Thanks for reading, and apologies.

[Rena]

I drove to the nearest Church of Latter Day Saints (the Morman church) to research my German ancestry.   I phoned up gave my requirements and they ordered the micro fiche for me to view at the church.  At the time it was £2.50 Sterling to hire the film.  I made copies of every document that held the surname I was interested in.

In the area of mainland Europe that I was interested in it seemed most people had the same names - probably because most of the new parents chose the family given names PLUS they asked the same high ranking locals to act as godparents - the first given names are the names of the sponsoring godparents.

One marriage that I recorded, the wife died and the widower married another lady with exactly the same names as his first bride.  If I hadn't looked at the micro-fiche I might have missed seeing the death of the first wife and goodness knows what my tree would have looked like.

Best Wishes,
Rena

[Deirdre784]

Thanks Rena, that is really helpful, i will persevere for a while but may encourage my friend to take this on

[Rena]

When I got used to the old fashioned writing, I could pick out the names I was interested in, but then I had to ask somebody to translate the documents for me.

In the area I was researching I found they had the same naming pattern as the UK.  My grandmother's names were Edith Sophia and her oldest brother was William Henry.   When I looked at the Lutheran church records I found their grandparents were Heinrich and Sophia.

[Deirdre784]

Same with this family Rena, which is reassuring as there is nothing to positively confirm that Johann and John are the same person - no census to show born in Lubeck and a Liverpool address on his marriage - but he was a ship’s carpenter on a couple of German censuses so it all seems to fit.

[davecapps]

Could you be a Bit more precise in what you are actualy looking for.
What documenta do (or dont)you have.
I had a look at the marriage fron Nicolausand Christiane Kühnel. IT days she was Born in Kopenhagen
Dave

[Deirdre784]

Hi Dave, yes that was the bride in the first marriage in Copenhagen, to a man from Lubeck in Germany with an almost identical name to one marrying in Lubeck the following year. Had the groom in the first marriage not been from Lubeck then i would have just believed it to be a coincidence with the name. Two deaths appear to suggest 2 men 😀

I don’t appear to be able to attach links to the data sorry.