Martin Winn's kids seem to have different mothers?

[JenB]

Still strange that Mary decided to enter Forbes rather than than Storey

I'm not quite sure what you mean?

[Seelife]

Hi JenB. Sorry I wasnt clear. What I meant was, Mary recorded her marriage as a Storey and father as Storey. But the childrens birth records have MMN Forbes.
So, where I am at is this. I believe Michael Storey is Forbes illegitimate and later used what he assumed/knew to be his "fathers" name. I think Mary used Storey as thats what she knew as her father as per marriage cert. There may have been a "family chat" that revealed the history and she used Forbes as childrens MMN as she seems to have grown up in that family.
On Familysearch Micheal seems to be Forbes and all same family names etc and Framwellgate etc. Even Mary is there as a Forbes.
Its all circumstantial, but all the records coincide and match. I just need to explain it clearly for anyone who comes after me on Wikitree. But so far, I think we all agree Michal and Mary are Forbes and they knew Michaels background. AND I really appreciate ALL the help to get to this point.
Not the first Winn mystery Ive come across, but a bit different. I can imagine some of the converstation between families over this.

[JenB]

Hi JenB. Sorry I wasnt clear. What I meant was, Mary recorded her marriage as a Storey and father as Storey. But the childrens birth records have MMN Forbes.

That's because her given name was Mary Forbes. We have that from her birth registration, baptism and all the censuses up to her marriage.

So, where I am at is this. I believe Michael Storey is Forbes illegitimate and later used what he assumed/knew to be his "fathers" name.

I take your point that Michael's father might have had the surname Storey, but I'm interested to know where, apart from Mary's marriage, you find him as Michael Storey rather than Michael Forbes?

[Seelife]

Hi JenB. As I said, I think its all circumstantial that Michael Storey/Forbes are the same. There is nothing I can find where a Michael Storey pops up other than this marriage. Other michael storeys appear as separate individuals. But there are few other explanations. Im open to any lines for me to follow.

[heywood]

As Mary gives her age as 18 yrs, would there be a formal consent from her father or could she just say/invent/forge this for her marriage.

I am finding it difficult to accept that Michael Forbes’ biological father was Storey which was then adopted as  the name for her marriage and for one child’s birth as a legitimate choice.

Mr Storey may well have been the father which caused her to use it but as Michael always seems to be Forbes, I would think that she used it to deceive rather than she thought it her true name.

Did her siblings marry as Forbes?

[JenB]

So, where I am at is this. I believe Michael Storey is Forbes illegitimate and later used what he assumed/knew to be his "fathers" name.

What records have you found showing Michael Forbes also using the surname Storey?

[Seelife]

Hi Heywood and Jen. I also have no good reason why Mary has "deceived". I also cannot find a link from Forbes to Storey other than the implied unmarried birth of Michael. And I cannot find a forwards or backwards link for Michael to Forbes-Storey. Nothing-Nada.
I can only take comfort in that everyone else in family trees are equally confused. But I would like to pick it apart, preferably without a Tardis. Checking marriages for the Forbes or later records, I find no change of names.
If the Forbes angle is a red herring - then there must be another Michael Storey from elsewhere who has arrived to work the mines in Framwell who married (presumably) and had a child Mary.
The Michael Storeys I find in Sunderland, Tanfield, Darlington etc do not match up and dont have a Mary of the right age etc.  I am happy to accept that Michael exists as a Storey, but where other than a marriage cert?  So the question remains, why did Mary list kids MMN as Forbes.

After all, there she is, living & married to Martin in 1891 in Witton Gilbert with six children.
If there is a dead end at Michael Storey, so be it, but I hate admitting defeat.

[JenB]

So the question remains, why did Mary list kids MMN as Forbes.

Perhaps I haven't explained my thinking on this clearly.

I think that Mary Forbes and Mary Storey are the same person.

Mary was born, birth registered and baptised as Forbes and appears as such with father Michael and mother Ann in the 1851 and 1861 censuses.

For some reason when she married Martin she gave her surname as Storey.

The simple reason why Forbes is entered as mother's maiden surname on the birth registrations is that Mary's maiden surname was Forbes (as I said in reply #56)

why did Mary list kids MMN as Forbes

It wasn't necessarily Mary did this - it was whoever registered the births.

 

[Seelife]

Hi Jen, OK I see your reasoning. I guess the takeaway is, dont try to force things to fit. But the flipside is, why did she change her name when getting married? There does not appear to be a marriage the same day according to the records, so possible mixup there. Both Mary and Michael give their names as Storey. They do make their mark X so its likely if a name was written wrongly for whatever reason, they would not know.