1920s - can father be determined?

[Lisa in California]

While helping a friend, “Bob”, with his tree, we found out that his grandfather was not his biological grandfather.  Nothing was ever mentioned to Bob, but his mother may not have known about her birth father. Thanks to the families having their DNA tested, creating online trees and including photos, I am certain that I found his previously unknown cousins, etc.

However, there were several brothers in the family.  I believe I can exclude a few of the brothers as being his grandfather but might there be a way to determine which brother “met up” with his grandmother?  The siblings were born in Ireland and most settled in America.  I’ve not yet been able to find out anything about one of the brothers so I can’t rule him out.  I also don’t know if all of the brothers were included in the trees.

I’ve started a tree for this family, to do my own research, but I’m just wondering, please, if it is more than likely impossible to determine who might be the grandfather. Thank you, Lisa

[TreeDigger]

It'll be a combination of DNA analysis and detective work I think.

First make sure the matches are actually cousins and not half-siblings or their descendants. The more matches there are, the easier it should be to find the 'outliers', or relatives that are potentially closer due to sharing a larger amount of DNA.

The other thing is to find out where Bob's grandmother was around the time of conception, and see if the location matches up with the known whereabouts of the brothers. Hopefully you'll then end up with a potential candidate.

[Glen in Tinsel Kni]

Yes it's possible but to narrow it down beyond a group of male siblings is dependant on the right people taking a test and being able to find those results on whichever site they may be on.  A result from the father would be the ultimate result but taking into account timeframes it's not possible in every case. The next best case would be a result from one of his children followed by results via his grandchildren. 

That's not to say it's the only avenue as results linking to the siblings of the father can help, by a process of elimination you may then go from one of 'several brothers' to perhaps just a couple or maybe even eliminate all the possibilities leaving just the one to answer the mystery. As much as we hope dna will lead us straight to an answer it's often a case where telling us what isn't possible is just as important.

The reality is it's unlikely descendants of every sibling have tested. By using the current matches it should be possible to work out which descendant lines are covered and which aren't, that information can then be used to suggest who to approach as a target test. 

[coombs]

Can I ask if his gran was married at the time of your friend's grandfather's birth, or did she marry when he was a baby, or while pregnant with him, do you know? Did you make the discovery through documents or was it actual DNA testing which revealed the NPE?

[Lisa in California]

Thank you both very much for your replies.

Bob’s closest match is (on Ancestry)
545 cM, across 15 segments, longest segment 82 cM. The next closest is
415 cM, across 15 segments, longest segment 86 cM.

Bob’s grandmother lived in the same city as some of the “Murphy” male and female siblings.  The Murphy brothers, who were single at the time, may have lived in the same neighbourhood as Bob’s single grandmother (I have to check). Not that it matters here, but I reviewed my notes and this happened during the 1910s, not the 1920s.

Bob is an only child.  His mother was an only child.  Bob’s mother passed before DNA testing became widely available.  We most likely would never contact the Murphy descendants as Bob isn’t terribly interested in genealogy and it probably would cause more harm than good.

Due to how complete one online tree is, I believe I know who the grandfather was but as mentioned, there are two men I’ve never been able to trace.  Yes, it’s time for more detective work (to satisfy my own curiosity).    Thank you again.

[If it wasn’t for their online photos, I wouldn’t be as curious.  One descendant, who passed on fairly young, looked like Bob when Bob was young.]

[Lisa in California]

Coombs, our messages crossed; I was rereading mine and then posted it.

His grandmother married his “grandfather” a few months before his mother’s birth.  She definitely, and most likely he, would have known about the impending birth.

DNA testing lead to the discovery.  While his mother was very “proud” (can’t think of a better word) of her Irish heritage on her mother’s side, she, I think, was oblivious of her Irish heritage, on her true father’s side.

PS. Thank you for asking.

Added:  whom I believe to be the father, married a lady a year or two after the birth and started his own family.

[coombs]

Coombs, our messages crossed; I was rereading mine and then posted it.

His grandmother married his “grandfather” a few months before his mother’s birth.  She definitely, and most likely he, would have known about the impending birth.

DNA testing lead to the discovery.  While his mother was very “proud” (can’t think of a better word) of her Irish heritage on her mother’s side, she, I think, was oblivious of her Irish heritage, on her true father’s side.

PS. Thank you for asking.

Added:  whom I believe to be the father, married a lady a year or two after the birth and started his own family.

So it seems she married another man while about 4 months pregnant by one of the Murphy brothers. It makes you wonder if the man she married thought the baby was his, or if he entered a relationship while she was, for example a few weeks to a couple of months pregnant, and he took the baby on as his own.

[Lisa in California]

It’s been a couple (or more) years since I researched this family.  From what I remember, she married somewhat late in the pregnancy.  Quite possibly she did meet him before she knew of the pregnancy and they both thought the baby was theirs or at least he cared for her enough to want to give them a stable life.

Bob never knew his grandparents: Grandmother died before Bob’s birth and Grandfather No. 2  died when Bob’s mother was a child.  My family knew Bob’s mother a long time. From stories she said about her mother, sister and father, it’s hard to imagine any hankypanky happening but I suppose people’s actions can fool us.

Thank you for your interest, coombs.

[TreeDigger]

According to https://dna-sci.com/tools/segcm/

545 cMs and 15 segments
Half-1C, Half-G or 2G Aunt/Uncle/Niece/Nephew - 60.3%
1st Cousin, Once Removed - 19.3%
G-Grandparent/G-Grandchild - 7.1%
etc

415cMs and 15 segments
Half-1C, Half-G or 2G Aunt/Uncle/Niece/Nephew - 49.3%
1st Cousin, Once Removed - 40.3%
2C, 1C2R, Half-1C1R, Half-2G-Aunt/Uncle/Niece/Nephew - 8.7%
etc.

That first match especially seems to (theoretically) point to a descendant of a half sibling of Bob's mother, and a nearly 50% chance the 2nd match is as well. So the brother you've got your eye on may be the right person, seeing how he married and had more children.

Solving genealogical puzzles is fun, though the end result may indeed cause some upheaval. Just the other day some forum members helped me nail down a hypothesis, and that resulted in the rug being pulled from underneath a family that very obviously was proud of their Irish roots.

Which they didn't have..