John McNEILL - who's his father?

[garlands]

When John applied to enter the Civil Service in 1867, his birth date is given as 02 Nov 1848 and his father's name is recorded as Daniel McNEILL.

When John married in 1875, being of full age, his father's name is recorded as Andrew McNEILL (a labourer).

I cannot find any baptismal record of a John McNEILL, with father Andrew, around that time or in that area, and neither can I find a marriage for Andrew McNEILL which might match.

I've not been able to access the original record of the 1875 marriage; the 1867 record is quite clear.

Am I conflating 2 totally disparate events or making some other error? Is the marriage transcript wrong?

Any help would be much appreciated.

[scotmum]

Is it this marriage:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details-civil/f1f8532872599

If yes, and as this John appears to have been a Sailor, what research have you undertaken and discoveries have you made, to have you believe/consider he is same John as the 1867 record?

If no, can you provide more details as to the 1875 marriage, eg spouse's name?

[garlands]

1.  I'm afraid I don't recognise the reference you quoted. I found this marriage on rootsireland.ie

2.  John McNEILL's occupation in 1901 was 'sea captain', resident in Belfast

3.  The marriage I have is:-
            17 Feb 1875  John McNEILL  m  Mary Elizabeth WAUGH  in Ballycarry (Presp)
                                   Sailor                         Dressmaker

4.  My inability to find any connection with Andrew McNEILL!!!!

[Kiltaglassan]

3.  The marriage I have is:-
            17 Feb 1875  John McNEILL  m  Mary Elizabeth WAUGH  in Ballycarry (Presp)
                                   Sailor                         Dressmaker

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1875/11192/8101296.pdf

[Jon_ni]

1. I'm afraid I don't recognise the reference you quoted

the two links are indentical from Sctomum & Kiltaglassan, Scotmum has used shrinklink to reduce it in Your Tools below in the brown footnote section. Both match the rootsireland transcript date and names, you said you had I've not been able to access the original record of the 1875 marriage and wished to confirm its accuracy.
[actually the pdf image is itself a period transcript, if you really want to view the original ledger one it will be imaged on GRONI]

Although the marriage was at Ballycarry Presbyterian, Templecorran Parish it says John McNeill was a resident of Carnlough which is on the border of Tickmacrevan & Ardclinis. [Ticknacross Parish does not exist]

Your inability to find a baptism record could be because it is not online, or was not recorded in the first place. Those two parishes are not on RootsIreland and Ardclinis C of I registers are still held locally.
Cross reference https://rootsireland.ie/antrim/online-sources.php with https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/sites/default/files/publications/Guide-to-Church-Records-October-2019.pdf

An Andrew McNeill died 1866 Larne District aged 63 and 1869 aged 55, both imaged only on GRONI.

[garlands]

I didn't think to include it earlier but, on the marriage record from 1875 are the statements:-

                              "Husband's father's occupation:  Labourer"

                             "Husband's father deceased"

which rules out those who died after 1875

[Jon_ni]

I saw Labourer in image but must admit to missing the 'deceased', [Farm] Labourer vs Farmer sometimes depends on the informant's preciseness. I'll remove those erroneous later death references.

[shanreagh]

When John applied to enter the Civil Service in 1867, his birth date is given as 02 Nov 1848 and his father's name is recorded as Daniel McNEILL.

....

Could you pl  provide a link to the application to join the Civil Service in 1867 or provide a copy.  Does it give any indication that he will be joining to be a sailor?  Where did he join?
Then 8 years later the occupation on the marriage certificate is 'sailor'

An Andrew dies in Belfast in 1874, he was a railway labourer and his death was accidental & subject to a coroner's inquest.  His wife's name was Mary and she was present at the death at 86 Hardinge St Belfast
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1874/020663/7250509.pdf

 

[shanreagh]

The children of John the sailor and Mary Waugh that I can find are (childrens' names can give clues to family naming patterns)

Joseph born Belfast 26/3/1880
Jemima Allen McNeil born Belfast 4/9/1900

The gap seems very wide.

Are you able to give the names/dates of the children in birth order please.

Did John & Mary stay in Ireland?