Help with a brick wall please 🙏 thank you

[Dundee]

I will definitely look out for this Phyllis

Marriages Dec 1890 

BAKER,    Fred       
CHAPMAN,  Maria Phyllis
Hackney    1b   829

Maria Phyllis was aged 34, the daughter of James CHAPMAN, bootmaker.

Debra 

[Emzunicorn01]

Could my Elizabeth Green have been married before and not disclosed it ? Thanks ☺️

Elizabeth was probably unmarried when she had Joseph and William.  Joseph may have died as an infant.

GREEN, JOSEPH
Aged under 12 months

GRO Reference: 1852  S Quarter in HACKNEY  Volume 01B  Page 155

Buried 1 August 1852 aged 6 months, address Union Street.

Debra 

They are chapman on birth cert? With dad named ?

[Ladyhawk]

Emzunicorn - you have your Elizabeth on a photograph at her granddaughter Alice’s wedding day

On the photograph does it give a surname for Elizabeth?

Alice married Arthur Percy Scrivens on 18 Dec 1910
her Father William Joseph Chapman,occ coachman,
witnesses William J/T? & Thomas George Chapman

her birth registration

CHAPMAN, ALICE  ELIZABETH   mmn THRUSSELL
GRO Reference: 1889  J Quarter in EDMONTON  Volume 03A  Page 281   

1911 census address 1 Isabella Road, Homerton N E
William Joseph Chapman born 1853 Stoke Newington, occ carman
wife Alice and  niece Flory Thrussell

Thomas George Chapman 22, coachman, 16 Cottrill Road
Married 24 Dec 1905 Esther Rose Rose
father William Jospeh Chapman, occ coachman
One witness Alice Elizabeth Chapman

John Hamon Chapman 26, coachman, 16 Cottrill Road
Married 26 Jun 1901 Mary Ann Rose
Father William Joseph Chapman, occ coachman
One witness Thomas George Chapman

1901 census  16 Cottrill Rd, Hackney
William J CHAPMAN born c1854 Stoke Newington, occ coachman
Wife Alice
children Joseph W, John H, George T, Alice E & Niece Florena Thrussell

Joseph William Chapman 24, coachman, 16 Cottrill Road
married 3 Aug 1901 Jessie Rachel Salmon,
his father Joseph William Chapman,occ coachman

1891 census  Do you have the Chapman family

CHAPMAN, GEORGE  THOMAS   mmn THRUSSELL
GRO Reference: 1884  J Quarter in HACKNEY  Volume 01B  Page 509   

Baptism father William Joseph, occ coachman mother Alice Abode 26 Victoria Road
George Thomas Chapman 21 Dec 1887 Hackney born 11 April 1884

1881 census address 1 Carshore Place
Joseph W Chapman born c1856 Stoke Newington, occ Coachman
Wife Alice C, children Joseph W 4 , John H
3 Lodgers
one named Sarah Thrussell age 28 &
John H Chapman age 33 >>>>>> Is John related to Joseph ie brothers perhaps?

CHAPMAN, JOSEPH  WILLIAM   mmn THURSSELL
GRO Reference: 1877  M Quarter in HACKNEY  Volume 01B  Page 481   

Baptism father William Joseph, occ coachman mother Alice abode 14 Sanford Lane, Joseph William Chapman 11 Nov 1877 Hackney

CHAPMAN, JOHN  ARMON   mmn THRUSSELL
GRO Reference: 1878  J Quarter in HACKNEY  Volume 01B  Page 490
   
father William Joseph, occ coachman mother Alice abode 26 Victoria Road
Baptism John Harmon Chapman   12 Jan 1888 Hackney born 16 Mar 1878

William Joseph CHAPMAN, occ labourer married 1 Jun 1876 West Hackney Church, Stoke Newington Alice THRUSSEL, his father William Joseph Chapman, occ labourer

1871 census?

1861 census? (see reply 13 from Rosie99 surname Green)

Details from birth certificates you have

William born 31st Dec 1853
1 Pullen’s place, West Hackney
Father Joseph - labourer
Mother Elizabeth Chapman formerly Green

Joseph born 8th Feb 1852
17 Union Buildings, Stoke Newington .
Father Joseph- labour.
Mother Elizabeth Chapman formerly Green

William J(oseph) Chapman is in Hampstead 1921 & 1939 and you confirmed on the thread his death 1943

burial listed here on
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/226128139/william-joseph-chapman - no additional info.

There is this marriage but this William Chapman married Honnora

Mar 1852  St George Southwark    1d   102
Chapman    William       
names on same page
Green    Elizabeth       
Kellerd    Hannora       
Kellerd    Honnora
Dowdney    John

[Emzunicorn01]

Emzunicorn - your have your Elizabeth on a photograph at her granddaughter Alice’s wedding day

On the photograph does it give a surname for Elizabeth?

Alice married Arthur Percy Scrivens on 18 Dec 1910
her Father William Joseph Chapman,occ coachman,
witnesses William J/T? & Thomas George Chapman

her birth registration

CHAPMAN, ALICE  ELIZABETH   mmn THRUSSELL
GRO Reference: 1889  J Quarter in EDMONTON  Volume 03A  Page 281   

1911 census address 1 Isabella Road, Homerton N E
William Joseph Chapman born 1853 Stoke Newington, occ carman
wife Alice and  niece Flory Thrussell

Thomas George Chapman 22, coachman, 16 Cottrill Road
Married 24 Dec 1905 Esther Rose Rose
father William Jospeh Chapman, occ coachman
One witness Alice Elizabeth Chapman

John Hamon Chapman 26, coachman, 16 Cottrill Road
Married 26 Jun 1901 Mary Ann Rose
Father William Joseph Chapman, occ coachman
One witness Thomas George Chapman

1901 census  16 Cottrill Rd, Hackney
William J CHAPMAN born c1854 Stoke Newington, occ coachman
Wife Alice
children Joseph W, John H, George T, Alice E & Niece Florena Thrussell

Joseph William Chapman 24, coachman, 16 Cottrill Road
married 3 Aug 1901 Jessie Rachel Salmon,
his father Joseph William Chapman,occ coachman

1891 census  Do you have the Chapman family

CHAPMAN, GEORGE  THOMAS   mmn THRUSSELL
GRO Reference: 1884  J Quarter in HACKNEY  Volume 01B  Page 509   

Baptism father William Joseph, occ coachman mother Alice Abode 26 Victoria Road George Thomas Chapman 21 Dec 1887 Hackney born 11 April 1884

1881 census address 1 Carshore Place
Joseph W Chapman born c1856 Stoke Newington, occ Coachman
Wife Alice C, children Joseph W 4 , John H
3 Lodgers
one named Sarah Thrussell age 28 &
John H Chapman age 33 >>>>>> Is John related to Joseph ie brothers perhaps?

CHAPMAN, JOSEPH  WILLIAM   mmn THURSSELL
GRO Reference: 1877  M Quarter in HACKNEY  Volume 01B  Page 481   

Baptism father William Joseph, occ coachman mother Alice abode 14 Sanford Lane, Joseph William Chapman 11 Nov 1877 Hackney

CHAPMAN, JOHN  ARMON   mmn THRUSSELL
GRO Reference: 1878  J Quarter in HACKNEY  Volume 01B  Page 490
   
father William Joseph, occ coachman mother Alice abode 26 Victoria Road
Baptism John Harmon Chapman   12 Jan 1888 Hackney born 16 Mar 1878

William Joseph CHAPMAN, occ labourer married 1 Jun 1876 West Hackney Church, Stoke Newington Alice THRUSSEL, his father William Joseph Chapman, occ labourer

1871 census?

1861 census? (see reply 13 from Rosie99 surname Green)

Details from birth certificates you have

William born 31st Dec 1853
1 Pullen’s place, West Hackney
Father Joseph - labourer
Mother Elizabeth Chapman formerly Green

Joseph born 8th Feb 1852
17 Union Buildings, Stoke Newington .
Father Joseph- labour.
Mother Elizabeth Chapman formerly Green

William J(oseph) Chapman is in Hampstead 1921 & 1939 and you confirmed on the thread his death 1943

burial listed here on
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/226128139/william-joseph-chapman - no additional info.

There is this marriage but this William Chapman married Honnora

Mar 1852  St George Southwark    1d   102
Chapman    William       
names on same page
Green    Elizabeth       
Kellerd    Hannora       
Kellerd    Honnora
Dowdney    John

Thank you so much for all this but I already have this information . I'm keen on tracing Elizabeth Green / Chapman . My great aunt told me Elizabeth Chapman ( maiden name green is in the photo ) William and jospeh b c states Elizabeth chapman ( green )

 

[Ladyhawk]

Is this William Joseph/Joseph William Chapman on 1871 census ?

Joseph Wm Chapman Age   15
Relation   Inmate
Where born   N
Civil parish   Edmonton
Ecclesiastical parish   Edmonton St James
County/Island   Middlesex
Country   England
Registration district   Edmonton
Sub-registration district   Edmonton
ED, institution, or vessel   Strand Union Infant Establishment
Piece   1342
Folio   137
Page number   9

[Ladyhawk]

Thank you so much for all this but I already have this information . I'm keen on tracing Elizabeth Green / Chapman . My great aunt told me Elizabeth Chapman ( maiden name green is in the photo ) William and jospeh b c states Elizabeth chapman ( green )

Yes I thought you would have all the information I put it together for anyone else looking to see if anything else comes to light

[Emzunicorn01]

Is this William Joseph/Joseph William Chapman on 1871 census ?

Joseph Wm Chapman Age   15
Relation   Inmate
Where born   N
Civil parish   Edmonton
Ecclesiastical parish   Edmonton St James
County/Island   Middlesex
Country   England
Registration district   Edmonton
Sub-registration district   Edmonton
ED, institution, or vessel   Strand Union Infant Establishment
Piece   1342
Folio   137
Page number   9

I am unsure on this one . It could be him , but they are in Edmonton

[Emzunicorn01]

Thank you so much for all this but I already have this information . I'm keen on tracing Elizabeth Green / Chapman . My great aunt told me Elizabeth Chapman ( maiden name green is in the photo ) William and jospeh b c states Elizabeth chapman ( green )

Yes I thought you would have all the information I put it together for anyone else looking to see if anything else comes to light

Thank you I hope someone can help ! <3

[rosie99]

Thank you Ladyhawk 

John has posted the link to Elizabeth Thomas in 1871.

In 1881 Elizabeth's daughter Harriet is married to John Petty and Harriets youngest sister Jane Amelia (bn1870) is staying with her.   RG11/283 f51 p41

Could this be Elizabeth Thomas nee Green's death 
Death Mar qtr 1872   
Thomas    Elizabeth   age 40    Hackney    1b   347
Still alive in 1881