Graham's of Cumberland

[silentnoise3]

Wow the Graham's seem quite abundant in Cumberland!

I wonder if anyone could help, I'm currently researching a Elizabeth Graham, 1852-1928 b. Cumberland, lived mainly in Caldcoats, Caldewgate and then later in life married Andrew Forsyth, living in Carlisle.

I've found quite alot on Ancestry but seemt to be a bit stuck on info for her parents - I think her parents were Thomas Graham 1827-pre1881ish? and Ann Steen 1831-1906, looks like they ran the Jovial Sailor pub at one point, seem's so many possibilities for Thomas, although i think an entry on IGI points in the direction his father was William!

Anyway if anyone else has come across any research or this line of the Graham's in Cumberland, I'd love to see/hear what information you have.

Thanks 

[sirsimon]

Hi

I have a Janet Graham on my tree. Born 1810 - 1885, married to George Steel. Any information on her would be appreciated

[LornaHen]

Wow the Graham's seem quite abundant in Cumberland!

I wonder if anyone could help, I'm currently researching a Elizabeth Graham, 1852-1928 b. Cumberland, lived mainly in Caldcoats, Caldewgate and then later in life married Andrew Forsyth, living in Carlisle.

I've found quite a lot on Ancestry but seem to be a bit stuck on info for her parents - I think her parents were Thomas Graham 1827-pre1881ish? and Ann Steen 1831-1906, looks like they ran the Jovial Sailor pub at one point, seem's so many possibilities for Thomas, although i think an entry on IGI points in the direction his father was William!

Anyway if anyone else has come across any research or this line of the Graham's in Cumberland, I'd love to see/hear what information you have.

Thanks 

Welcome to the GRAHAMs of Cumberland madness!
Still interested in this family?
My interest has arisen from a dna match to a descendant of Thomas and Ann's dtr Agnes, but I don't yet know if it is this line my match is on, or a. n. other of my match's ancestors.
(If this is your Elizabeth you should come up with a good match to my match even if not with me, this was over at 23andme)

I've come to the conclusion that Thomas who married  Ann STEEN and shown at the Jovial Sailor  1871 (Thomas & Ann)/1881 (Ann)/1891 (Ann) was Thomas Wilkinson GRAHAM d. Feb 1874, son of a William and an Elizabeth, but which one???
In the same extracted batch of baptisms to a William and Elizabeth in St Mary's, there's also an 1825 Agnes GRAHAM, but no others.
But another batch number, also including Thomas Wilkinson, same date, same parents, has a set of  13 GRAHAM baptisms to a William and Elizabeth/Elizth all potentially the same family as only the first two would be a bit tight for births, but might be more than one family, or rather unlucky, given two Thomas, James and Agnes children listed:

Thomas 1813, Ann 1814, Jane 1815, James 1817 Sarah Caroline Benson 1820, William 1821, James 1823, Agnes 1825, Thomas Wilkinson 1827, Agnes 1829, James 1831, Wilfred 1833, George 1835.
Several of these are with William, weaver in Rigg St, 1841/1851:
William Graham    34 (as indexed, but really 54)
Elizabeth Graham    49
William Graham    20
Thomas Graham    14
Agnes Graham    12
Welford (as indexed) Graham    8
George Graham    6
Robert Graham    4
1851:
William Graham    63
Catherine Graham    63
Wilfred Graham    18
George Graham    16
Robert Graham    14


There's a William baptized 1787 St Mary's, Carlisle to a Robert GRAHAM and Elizabeth WILKINSON which seems likely for William and his parents.
They married 1784 St Andrews, Penrith according to extracted records on FamilySearch.
I'm trying to convince myself whether or not William is the above weaver in Rigg St, Carlisle, with Elizabeth in 1841 and a Catherine in 1851
Their Thomas is of an age to be Thomas Wilkinson GRAHAM and I've not yet found a better candidate in 1841 for Thomas Wilkinson GRAHAM.

Have only just started looking at the possible William/Elizabeth marriages.

Hope this helps someone, and someone comes out of the woodwork with the missing pieces.
https://familysearch.org/tree/#view=tree&person=LJRX-FB2&section=descendancy
is the William father of Thomas Wilkinson GRAHAM.

Regards

Lorna
http://LornaHen.com

[Skoosh]

I have read that hese Cumberland Graham's don't seem to be related to their Scottish namesakes, which is a bit strange? Graham's in the west of Scotland who have an Irish origin are just as likely to be of Cumbrian origin than Scottish as many were shipped to Ireland by James VI.

Skoosh.

[deebel]

Hi papamoa,

My direct line Wilfred Graham was born Carlisle 8 Jan 1833. Looking for info on parents given as William Graham and Elizabeth Mattinson. Wiliam's father was another William and his spouse given as Catherine (no more detail) both circa born 1790 in Cumberland.

Anything on these individuals?

Thanks

deebel



just noticed Lornahen seems to have struck this line

d

[LornaHen]

Hi papamoa,

My direct line Wilfred Graham was born Carlisle 8 Jan 1833. Looking for info on parents given as William Graham and Elizabeth Mattinson. Wiliam's father was another William and his spouse given as Catherine (no more detail) both circa born 1790 in Cumberland.

Anything on these individuals?

Thanks

deebel

just noticed Lornahen seems to have struck this line

d

Deebel,
Wilfred looks more likely to belong to William and Elizabeth rather than William and Catherine - see relative ages in the 1841/1851 census records.
My current assumption, as yet unresearched, is that Elizabeth died between 1841 and 1851 and William remarried a Catherine.
I've not fully investigated this remarriage, but it looks likely.

Don't suppose you have any info on your Wilfred's brother Thomas to rule him in or out as Thomas Wilkinson GRAHAM do you?
And info on which record specifically states Wilfred's mother as Elizabeth MATTINSON?

I do note that Elizabeth MATTINSON married William GRAHAM in 1830, which looks, on the surface, to rule her out of contention as mother of the older children in the Rigg St census, including Thomas bap. 1827 .

I was rather hoping someone might pop out of the woodwork who had read the baptisms of the period for St Mary's and pass on some handy occupational/residence clues for the assorted William and Elizabeth parents 
Guess I'll have to order the film some year.

[LornaHen]

...

I do note that Elizabeth MATTINSON married William GRAHAM in 1830, which looks, on the surface, to rule her out of contention as mother of the older children in the Rigg St census, including Thomas bap. 1827 .
..

PS looking at just the Carlisle marriages groom William on FamilySearch
Jul 1808 to Elizabeth DENNISON St Cuthberts
Dec 1813 to Elizabeth UNDERWOOD St Marys,
Mar 1814 to Elizabeth STEPHENSON St Marys
with several others further afield than Carlisle of course.

Wonder how many of the descendants of these GRAHAM families have ventured into autosomal dna testing?
It may eventually help sort them into families.
If anyone wants to check for lingering GRAHAM dna in my genes, I'm F105164 on GEDMatch.com
and yes, some dna persists a LONG time past the 4-6 generations these tests are meant to be good for.
My maternal aunt (F295025) has a fully triangulated match to GRAHAM families  in Delaware/Virginia by 1710ish (from at least three separate branches over two families and several participants) which makes our common ancestor likely to be my line of Andrew & Jane GRAHAM of Fauld in the late 1600s.
In the States the two families were suspected to be linked but there's only circumstantial evidence.
DNA is adding to the overall information pool.

http://lornahen.blogspot.co.nz/2014/07/chromosome-map-update.html
and earlier posts refer.

[deebel]

[/quote]



Don't suppose you have any info on your Wilfred's brother Thomas to rule him in or out as Thomas Wilkinson GRAHAM do you?
And info on which record specifically states Wilfred's mother as Elizabeth MATTINSON?


[/quote]

LornaHen

I do not currently have a documentary source for Mattinson. The name was handed down through family . My father interviewed a number of his elderly ancestors 25 years ago and the name Elizabeth Mattinson was stated as mother of Wilfred.( His GGF Wilf)

[deebel]

Manchester Courier ... 22 December 1827

Marriages

...At Wetheral, Mr William Graham of Carlisle, wine and spirit merchant, to Miss Smith of Wetheral....