Author Topic: Born in Nottingham Prison  (Read 17664 times)

Offline Carmela

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Born in Nottingham Prison
« on: Thursday 21 June 07 09:29 BST (UK) »
Hi All,
I am trying to help an elderly friend. This woman's father was born in Nottingham Prison , June 30th, 1885.
I have a copy of the birth cert. which states:
Name: William Arthur Stanley
Mother: Ellen Stanley, domestic servant
Signature,description, residence of informant:
Ellen Stanley Mother,  HM Prison Nottingham

William Arthur Stanley emigrated to Canada in the early 1900s. He married and had a family, but never told his children anything about his origin, other than that he had been born in England and came to Canada alone, when he still in his teens.

His daughter found his birth certificate after his death and was utterly shocked to learn that her father had been born in prison. She has never stopped wondering
what crime her grandmother committed . She imagines that it must have something really serious. I would love to be able to tell her that it was just some petty offence.

I have started trying to trace the family but, my main concern at the moment is to find court records or anything that might tell us what this poor girl did to end up in prison.

I know nothing beyond what is on the birth cert.
Since William was born at the end of June 1885 and I
assume Ellen was already pregnant when she entered
prison, then the trial would have taken place no earlier than early Oct. 1884.
I found an Ellen Stanley in the 1881 census, who just might be the right one. she was  working as a servant in a small boarding school in Standard Hill Nottingham.
Of course with a common name like Stanley, I might be wrong, but she was the only servant and a suitable age.

I have looked for information online and as far as I can
see, prison records and court records would be in the
Nottingham Archives. Since I live in Canada, this presents a bit of a problem.

Is there a kind soul out there who lives in Nottingham and would be willing to help? Any ideas or advice would
be appreciated.

Feel free to send me a PM if you have any questions.

Regards,
Carmela






                           




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Offline lizdb

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Re: Born in Nottingham Prison
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 21 June 07 10:14 BST (UK) »
I suppose it is possible she was working at the prison rather than an inmate, but probably unlikely.

The Record office for Nottingham hopefully may have prison records, if any have survived, or will point you to whoever does have them.

If you cannot find anyone who is able to visit the Nott'm archives for you, then I suggest you contact them yourself, either via email, or with a good old fashioned letter.
 
Before genealogy 'took off' online in recent years, with some info becoming available online, that was the only way to find out anything ! It is easy to forget now, and fall into the trap that if info is not 'online' then it is not there at all.

All the best - hope you do find some prison records
Edmonds/Edmunds - mainly Sussex
DeBoo - London
Green - Suffolk
Parker - Sussex
Kemp - Essex
Farrington - Essex
Boniface - West Sussex

census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Dizzifish

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Re: Born in Nottingham Prison
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 21 June 07 10:20 BST (UK) »
Hello Carmela,

At the moment the only thing I can tell you is the baptism;

WILLIAM ARTHUR STANLEY, mother ELLEN STANLEY 20th December 1885, at Nottingham Holy Trinity.

So I can only assume she was out of prison by this time.

I hope someone else may come up with some ideas to help.

Regards

Sheila.


Offline avm228

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Re: Born in Nottingham Prison
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 21 June 07 10:30 BST (UK) »
It's right that the Petty and Quarter Sessions records will be held at Nottingham Archives - but the records of the Nottingham Assizes (trials for more serious offences) are held at The National Archives, Kew.

Local newspapers are likely to have reported many of these matters (small and large) and will be both at Nottingham and at the British Library Newspaper section in Colindale.

All of which are a long way from Canada - hope someone will be able to help you :)

Anna
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)

Offline Dizzifish

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Re: Born in Nottingham Prison
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 21 June 07 10:39 BST (UK) »
Hi Carmela & Liz,

Just a note regarding Nottingham Archives at one time they would do a specific search for free or tell you if they held the records you wanted but a few weeks ago I asked if they held a particular Will, they did give me an answer this time but this was attached to the email;

On 13 February 2007 Nottinghamshire Archives launched its new Research Service.
This new service offers full research into the whole range of documents and records held at Nottinghamshire Archives.
Full details of the service, with information on fees and charges, are on our website
www.nottinghamshire.gov.uk/archivesenquiries.   
The service has replaced all short, specific searches undertaken by staff free of charge.
Our list of independent record agents is still available, and researchers are of course welcome to make a personal visit to Nottinghamshire Archives.

From what I gather the cost is 20 an hour

Sheila.

Offline lizdb

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Re: Born in Nottingham Prison
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 21 June 07 10:45 BST (UK) »
Genealogy is not a cheap hobby!!

I hope Carmela finds someone who is going who can look for her (sorry not my part of the country). If not that they find it quickly and it doesnt take hours of searching at 20 per hour!
(Cheaper than an air fare from Canada though!!)
Edmonds/Edmunds - mainly Sussex
DeBoo - London
Green - Suffolk
Parker - Sussex
Kemp - Essex
Farrington - Essex
Boniface - West Sussex

census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Heather D

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Re: Born in Nottingham Prison
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 21 June 07 18:40 BST (UK) »
Interesting that on baptism their abode was given as Southwell House.

A quick google turns up a Southwell House girls home in Nottingham, for which Notts Archives hold the records from 1886...it's just possible there might be something there.

If it was a girls home they were in, it could be that Ellen was quite young and may have been home with parents in 1881?

Do you have William on either the 1891 or 1901 census?

Heather
Nottinghamshire: Willmott, Williams, Oldham, Padgett, Burden, Stokes, Huskinson, Tuckwood, Morley, Barnett
Lincolnshire: Foster, Dennis, Mowbray
Leicestershire: Mowbray,Hudson, Tuckwood
Derbyshire: Starbrook
Somerset: Willmott, Elliott
Cork:Driscoll, Murphy
London Surrey:Driscoll, Cheesman
London Kent:Cheesman
Kent:Cheesman, Davis, West, Hills, Kneller, Bones, Eastup

Census information is crown copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Carmela

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Re: Born in Nottingham Prison
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 21 June 07 20:21 BST (UK) »
Thanks to Everybody for the advice.

Oh dear, the news about the cost of searches of the archives is very depressing. William's daughter could not afford it.

Heather:  The girls home is an interesting find. I will try another search of census records as I am not sure what I did the other day, but I think I left age blank to pull in all Ellen Stanleys.
 I could not find William(or Ellen) in either the 1891 or the 1901 census.

Still hoping someone will volunteer to help.

Regards,
Carmela

















Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationararchives.gov.uk

Current obsessions:
OXF: Rose of Wheatley and Holton 1700s
BRK: Stevenson of East Hanney 1600-1880s
BKM: Woodman of Wing
DEV: Youlden of Whimple
SOM: Smith, Gudge, Joy and Tett of Crewkerne

Offline lizdb

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Re: Born in Nottingham Prison
« Reply #8 on: Friday 22 June 07 10:46 BST (UK) »
i think the key to this one is going to be to find Ellen and Willaim in 1891 and 1901. That may give us more info on Ellen (like date and place of birth) so we will know if the one in 1881 at the school is her or not.

It still wont tell us why she was in prison - or indeed if she was in prison as an inmate or working there, I note the school in 1881 is at Nottingham Castle - perhaps she always worked for that kind of establishment!

But - as yet I can find nothing for them in 1891 or 1901 index (not got full access)
Edmonds/Edmunds - mainly Sussex
DeBoo - London
Green - Suffolk
Parker - Sussex
Kemp - Essex
Farrington - Essex
Boniface - West Sussex

census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk