TREASE/TRAIES continued...

[kerryb]

also just found an 1851 census - St Giles, Camberwell a Maria age 22 born Bermondsey with her mother Ann.  Widow.

Kerry

[kerryb]

Well!

trying to find Elizabeth's parent Louis and Elizabeth Michel and tried Rootsweb trees as a starting point.  Well imagine my surprise when I found a tree with a number of children that do fit records I have found on Ancestry with details for Louis - born about 1780 Rouen, France. 

Now I'm not making assumptions but I need to go and lie down, that's the first drop of foreign blood in my tree!!!!!!

Kerry

[gardenerbob]

1803 militia list - Ancestry

At the library this morning I entered in the general search screen - Samuel Trays, birth year - 1800 country England and the 1803 militia list entry popped up as the first hit. It showed :-
Samuel Trays Fuller ---1- (labelled Extracted Parish Records)
I did the same for James Trays and the first entry this time was :-
James Trays Tin Man 1----- (labelled Extracted Parish Records)

In each case there were 4 '-' plus one 1.

If the dashes represent the classes it could be that James is Class 1. We know Samuel is Class 4 from the Genuki transcript. The description of  'Tin Man' fits so I guess it could be our James - I keep thinking of the Wizard of Oz character.

One thing that puzzles me is that the marriage of James and Sally Crees in the same parish in 1803 is attributed to James's uncle James and their daughter Rebecca is christened in the same parish  in 1804 but that James somehow eludes the 1803 militia list unless...  After 1804 as far as I can see  the trail of that James appears to runs cold.

Eliza Robert's children

I'll get the tree corrected. There were so many children of John and Eliza Robert's on IGI that only a few were listed that seemed to fit. The two families explains the number. The Mary Annie may be a mistranscription of the original letter I suppose. Unfortunately I do not have the letter but may be able to access it later in the year if I remember.

The James christening

Like you I am not knowledgeable of London. I seem to remember St Dunstans was Mile End Old Town and Shoreditch seems to be next door so my guess would be it is a possible. Could the middle name Stephen be his wife's surname?

Ann Traies widow with daur Maria

Can't find anything that fits so far - could be a new Traies family.

Regards,

Bob

[kerryb]

Hi Bob

Sorry should have said the Maria with mother Ann was a Roberts and I think the same Maria baptised to John and Ann in 1837 who I do not think is connected to children of John Roberts and Elizabeth Michel.

Kerry 

[oldmanriver]

Hi all,

I was glad to see the sudden burst of activity on the TRAIES board.  Thanks Bob and Kerry for the new information.

I wa pleased to get the burial record of Jane TRAIES, first child of James and Hannah in 1810.  We thought that Jane must have died as a baby as James named another daughter, Jane, many years later.  Thanks Kerry for that.

Regarding finding your way around the London parishes, it may help if you try to think of some of the parishes in the East end as forming a triangle with rounded corners.  The top third of the triangle is the large parish of St. John. Hackney.  The second third of the triangle is a row of three parishes being (from left to right) St. Leonard, Shoreditch, St. Matthew, Bethnal Green and St. Mary Stratford le Bow.  Below St Leonard Shoreditch is part of the City of London.  Below St Matthew Bethanl Green are three parishes, Christchurch, Spitalfields, St. Mary. Whitechapel and St. Dunstan, Stepney.  Below St. Mary. Stratford le Bow is St, Mary,Bromley St. Leonard.  Below this row of parishes are further small parishes stretching down to the river Thames itself.

I know that trying to understand the parishes and hamlets of London is not easy.  Even Bethnal Green and Whitechapel were originally part of the parish of Hackney, although by the start of the reign of Victoria in 1837 they were parishes in their own right.  By the end of Victoria's reign there were a huge number of parishes and many more churches were built.  Many of the new parishes were formed by splitting of original larger parishes.

I'm too tired to write more now, but I'll be sending another message soon, as I have a few comments I'd like to make in response to various recent messages.  If you are interested in seeing a map of the pre 1837 parishes I could scan it and send it to you in two halves.  I couldn't send it to the board and would have to send it as a private e-mail

Speak to you again soon.

Bernice

[kerryb]

Hi Bernice

Nice to hear from you again.  Thank you for the information about the London parishes.  A map would probably be very helpful.  I have links to various websites but can never find them when I really want them.

I too was so pleased to be able to put a death date onto the first Jane, now if only we could find the baptisms for some of the other children it might help to sort out the mother once and for all!

Every so often I have a search on Ancestry with some new permutation to see if anything comes up.

Kerry

[oldmanriver]

Hi all,

Good to get the copy of the Militia List for 1803 from Bob.  Yes, it would certainly seems  that the Samuel and James TRAYS  on the list are the ancestors being researched by Kerry and myself, although we think of them as TRAIES and not TRAYS.

As Kerry rightly says it does help to define the time of the marriage of James to Hannah down to sometime after 1803 and before 1809 when their first child was born.

Hannah TRAIES was definately buried in St. Dunstan's, Stepney in 1818 and I sent a copy of the actual burial entry to Kerry last night.  Mile End Old Town at that time was a hamlet within this parish.  This means that the children of James born after 1818 were certainly not the children of Hannah, but of James and his second wife Ann SUTTON.  I don't think you have updated this in your research, Bob.

Regarding James the soldier (a son of James and Hannah) born 1816/17, on one of his documents he gives Mile End as his place of birth and in another it is said to be St. Mary le Bow.  At the time of his birth the Mile End Road would seem to have been a mile long section of the main road which stretched from the outter side of Aldersgate in the city walls and ran eastwards through Stepney and St. Mary le Bow and then on towards Colchester in Essex.  Mile End Old Town had developed either side of the Mile End Road.

When Kerry read that the name of James (Senior) had appeared on the Militia List in Exeter in 1803, she appeared to think that meant that James Senior had been in the army (in 1803) and mentioned that therefore his son, James, by joining the army had been following in his father's footsteps.  This was not the case.  The Militia Lists were just used to list all the inhabitants in a parish who could be called to defend it in an emergency.  The 1803 List was important as there was a serious threat of invasion by Napoleon.

I was interested in the entry found by Kerry in the register's of St. Leonard Shoreditch. where a baptism had taken place 6 June 1817 for a James Stephen son of James and Hannah TARIES.  I think there is a strong possibilility that this is the baptism of James, junior, son of James and Hannah TRAIES.  The year of birth would fit and although I've looked at census returns for the surname TARIES, also the IGI, free BMD etc. I can find no families by the name of TARIES.  I can't prove it is one of 'our' missing christenings , and we do not know if he had a second name of Stephen.  I feel we can't rule this entry out at this stage.

Bye for now
Bernice

[kerryb]

Thank you for a most helpful summary Bernice.

I didn't really know what militia lists were so your explanation is not only helpful but also interesting.

I did some census searching for Taries too and didn't come up with anything.  I also feel although we can't yet say for definite this is one of our christenings it is a strong contender.  I wonder where the name Stephen came from?  Was there an ancestor?

I shall keep on trawling the London records for those missing christenings.

Kerry

[deb usa]

Hi everyone

I have looked at the James Stephen TARIES baptism ... I hate to put a spanner in the works but to me it looks like his surname is DAVIES .... I searched the next page on the original and there is a Thomas and someone's occupation is a Timber Merchant ... The "Ts" do not match that of the T in TARIES.

I searched for JS DAVIES in the censuses  ...didn't find him but did find this:

BURIAL:
James Stephen DAVIES age 9 years of CROWN street
11 Apr 1824
St Leonard Shoreditch, Hackney.

deb