Author Topic: Completed; My brickwall; Grandparents  (Read 3569 times)

Offline Glen in Tinsel Kni

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Completed; My brickwall; Grandparents
« on: Saturday 17 January 09 11:15 GMT (UK) »
Morning all.

I don't usually have a brickwall but this little problem has been my undoing for three years now, it's research into my birth family on my paternal line and i'm really at a loss as to where to look next;

The partners in this genealogical crime are John Townsend and Annie Turner, did they ever marry? Where are they from? When where they born? All this (and more) still to be uncovered.


1919, Lincoln;
Birth of John Townsend to John Townsend and Annie Townsend, formerly Turner.

1923, Lincoln;
Birth of James Townsend, 12/05/1923, parents as above.

1925, Lincoln
Birth and death of Joseph Townsend, parents as above.

1945, Middlesborough
Marriage of James Townsend, residence Newland St West, Lincoln, father noted as John Townsend, deceased.

1984, Worksop
Death of James Townsend or Turner dob 12/05/1923, informant John Townsend, brother, resident in Lincoln.

The 1921-1927 voters roll show John snr and Annie living together in Lincoln at the address shown on the birth certs, 1928 onwards John snr appears to be alone, 1929 he is living elsewhere and the address is unknown, Annie has vanished too.

Post 1928 is a mystery, a rumour suggests Annie lived with another man, the only document after 1928 to hint at anything is a marriage cert for James in 1945 which states his father is deceased and the death cert mentioned above.


I haven't been able to pinpoint a Townsend/Turner marriage, James was a ladies man and had kids all over the country but his death cert entry seems to suggest that either his parents were not married (or was he possibly using both names to avoid his whereabouts being discovered by the mothers of his children?)

I had a search on the 1911 for John and Annie, the only John in Lincoln who is old enough is listed in an institution, there are 3 possibles for Annie but i haven't gone down the route of looking at images. I suspect John and Annie were not together in 1911 so i doubt the expense will answer the question. Expanding the search to Lincolnshire just compounds the problem and there is no gaurantee that Lincolnshire plays a part anyway.

The only other clue is the surname Goddard connected to a fleet of lorries in Lincoln but that may be before and/or after WWII.


So what next? What do i try (bearing in mind i no longer have an Ancestry sub), the 1911 doesn't look helpful because i know so little about them, no age or pob so the result could be top of the list but i wouldn't know.

Any suggestions or snippets from anywhere please?

Offline Glen in Tinsel Kni

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Re: My brickwall; Grandparents
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 17 January 09 12:11 GMT (UK) »
Sorry, slight correction

The 1945 marriage cert shows the residence of James to be 13 Newport, Lincoln.

Witness #2 G. Goddard

The 1930 Kellys shows a Miss Townsend resident at Newport Manor, Newport, Lincoln. Maybe just a co-incedence?

Offline GeoffE

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Re: My brickwall; Grandparents
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 17 January 09 12:12 GMT (UK) »
A single point (before I try looking anywhere else) ... you say Annie was on the Electoral list in 1921 - women had to be aged 30 or more to have the vote in those days.
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Offline Glen in Tinsel Kni

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Re: My brickwall; Grandparents
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 17 January 09 12:22 GMT (UK) »
Hi Geoff

I thought that a little strange but the listing for the address (6 Nixons Court) has some notes about "qualification to vote through occupation".

The 1920's certs refer to John Townsend (father) as a labourer, the 1945 marriage cert refer to him as a bricklayer.

All i can say for definate is that the address from the 1920's certs and the early/mid 1920's register i viewed at Lincoln library match up the names to the address until 1927.

There is a death for an Annie Turner aged 42 in Stamford March qtr 1927,


Offline GeoffE

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Re: My brickwall; Grandparents
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 17 January 09 12:24 GMT (UK) »
The 1930 Kellys shows a Miss Townsend resident at Newport Manor, Newport, Lincoln. Maybe just a co-incedence?

1933 shows Misses A.A.S and E.M TOWNSEND living there - they surely will be findable in 1901 or earlier.

Yes, I saw the Stamford death.  As James's death was under both names, I suspect they never married (each other!)
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Offline Glen in Tinsel Kni

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Re: My brickwall; Grandparents
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 17 January 09 12:38 GMT (UK) »
The death entry makes me suspect there was never a marriage too if i'm honest.

It's really frustrating though because James had twelve children that i know of, born to 6 different women between 1947 and 1966 in several areas of the country. I'm #12, but there might be others!!
I have managed to meet with six of them (including a half brother who thanks to modern medacal techniques is now my half sister). I can crack that little mystery but trip up with my grandparents.

Offline GeoffE

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Re: My brickwall; Grandparents
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 17 January 09 13:24 GMT (UK) »
I don't think 13 Newport was anything remarkable (the home of a Labourer in 1901) - the "Turks Head" was No 17 and is the building on the (north side) corner of Cecil St http://tinyurl.com/7skygx so 13 would have been south of Cecil St.  I haven't (as yet) found out where Newport Manor was.
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Offline Glen in Tinsel Kni

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Re: My brickwall; Grandparents
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 18 January 09 13:02 GMT (UK) »
When James married in 1945 he was in the Royal Signals, 13 Newport is the addy noted on the cert. The marriage took place in Middlesborough and he stayed in Middlesborough for two maybe three years.

I might get in touch with Lincoln library and ask for a search of the electoral roll for the years after the war just to see what surnames are connected to the property. Pre war James was to young to vote but that doesn't mean the house isn't connected to the family so it might be worth checking the 1930's entries too. Anything showing a Townsend, Turner or Goddard reference would be interesting, there may not be anything but if that is the case at least it eliminates the address for the years searched.

The 1920's results and the birth certs match for dates and addresses, there is also a burial for Joseph Townsend aged 0 in 1925 (St Swithins), this also tallies up nicely with the Nixons Court address too.

All pieces in a puzzle without a picture as usual.

Offline GeoffE

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Re: My brickwall; Grandparents
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 18 January 09 13:43 GMT (UK) »
All pieces in a puzzle without a picture as usual.

Without a picture, you don't know how many pieces there are!
Don't cry because its over. Smile because it happened.