Lady Ann of Clontarf?

[despair]

I'm struggling to differentiate the possible John Burkes.The militiaman may well have been a gentleman first and an officer as a consequence.A John Burke Esq of Moyglass looks an interesting candidate.He appears to be different from Sir John Burke,whose lands appear to be adjacent.The estate is in the encumbered category in 1851,then associated with an Edward Burke,though I can't find a convincing death record for John Burke.Again there may be a link with a James Burke Esq,but I can't convince myself this is not James Ulick Burke as previously.

I have tried to find data on the wife of John Sutherland,Captain and Adjutant,in case she provides the Lady Ann(e) connection.In the record of Jesse's birth she is given as Catherine Sunderland which I think in the nature of the records is her maiden name.Again this is proving problematic.
John Sutherland's death is in 1847,given as 76 years old.Catherine may well have not have been his first wife-again a convincing death record with age eludes me.There  is an entry in the abstract of wills for John Sutherland in 1847.I do not know if this means a will still exists(and,if so how to obtain it).Most records were apparently destroyed in a fire.The will obviously pre dates Jesse's marriage but could perhaps provide other clues,perhaps about his wife.

Regards
Roger

[Joseph L. Oliver]

Hi Roger:

Wish I could help you but that would be way out of my league.  All I can do is cheer from the sidelines.

In terms of what I might be able to help with, I've been toying with getting back on ancestry, after about two years of cold turkey, in order to go at this from another tangent.  If I can find a sibling of James F., they could possibly provide another route to JF's parents. 

In the WCD, living with James F. Burke in Cincinnati is often shown an Alice Burke, wife of Charles Burke.   Charles sometimes is with his wife and JF, sometimes he's living elsewhere.  Have no idea if Charles is a brother to JF, or son, how old they are, etc.  Anyway, all searching on FamilySearch for the couple bear no certain results, so Ancestry is the logical next step.  Will have to wait 'til my cash flow improves a bit, hopefully in a month or so, and will let you know when I do so.

Regards,

Joe



 

[MonicaL]

Joe, I more that second your comments on Roger's research and contributions!

Where I have concentrated in the past has been on the US data...as much as you can online, with relevant records available.

Joe, I think you have done a sterling job on the research of US City directories. With the exception of an early one, most entries pick up from the early 1870s to likely around the time of JF's death (which we now have confirmed). I did the link early on to this post in the US which gave a great summary but adding now again for easier ref www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=501354.0

I have spent hours...hours...over time looking at the US censuses for the period of 1861-1871 (we have the family in 1881). Using both FS and A/try. I have tried every wildcard in the book on a/try, all to no avail which has been very frustrating for sure. I have hoped that the American years might throw up some clues that would let us work back to Ireland/Scotland with more confidence. I haven't seen anything so far that helps...but never say never. They are there, we just haven't found them 

I have always wondered about the children they had. Three children that we know of so far seem too few. We also have the 5 year gap following their marriage in 1850 and the first record of a child, too long when it comes to getting possible clues sometimes in terms of naming patterns.

Monica

[Joseph L. Oliver]

Why haven't I thought of this before?  THe Archdiocese of Cincinnati:  it's where I got so much Burke information, including Jessie's maiden name.  Back then I wasn't looking for Charles and other household members.  It's all snail mail, but who cares?  It worked.

Just looked at their website and wouldn't you know:  they are relocating and won't be accessible until sometime in 2015.   Argh!

Joe

[despair]

I thouggt from your earlier thread on the USA board that it seemed probable that Charles was the son of James.While looking at this I came across the following,which you have probably seen,but just in case:

http://drc.libraries.uc.edu/bitstream/handle/2374.UC/332823/18890401d_4.JPG?sequence=1

http://drc.libraries.uc.edu/bitstream/handle/2374.UC/367843/18940906d_5.JPG?sequence=1

Regards
Roger

[hallmark]

Despite the fact that her children appeared to have died relatively young without issue,I can't find a better candidate than Anne(sometimes Lady),2nd Countess of Charlemont,of Marino House Clontarf,born 1780.

Regards
Roger

Don't forget she was Countess of Charlemont... as in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viscount_Charlemont and then for Dublin.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Caulfeild,_1st_Earl_of_Charlemont, Marino House was their Dublin House.

http://archiseek.com/2010/1763-charlemont-house-parnell-square-dublin/ their city house.

[Joseph L. Oliver]

Roger:

Yes, thanks, I do have those death records of James and Jessie. 

And hello Hallmark.  It's been awhile.  Thanks for your comment.  Yes, your first link applies to Anne, wife of Francis Caulfield, the 2nd Earl of Clontarf.  But the second link is for James, the father of Francis.

So far, Anne Caulfield does indeed seem to be the best candidate for our family's Lady Anne.

Hope you are all well and blessed with connection to your families, present and past.

Regards,

Joe

[hallmark]

Plenty of other links there too.. some records may be in Tyrone, have you checked Caulfield Pedigree?

[despair]

I've been trying to clarify the family sequence of Burkes associated with Clondagoff(also Clondagauv/Clondadauv) with limited success.Starting with the John Stanislaus Burke who was evicted in the late 1880s and then went to Cincinnati before returning,I have the following:

I think he travelled to Cincinnati in 1895 and returned 1906/7.The 1900 census has both a John S Burke and a Stanley Burke in the household of Mary E Burke in 946 Barr, Ward 20 Hamilton County,together with Francis,Edward and Bernard.It is likely he is the Stanley referred to here,as I also think there is an Irish record for him under John Stanley Burke.He is elsewhere described as a farmer.
Mary E Burke is described as widow of Garrett.This would fit as Garrett Burke is described in a newspaper article of 1864 as "..of Clandegoff Castle.."and is also a head of household in Cloondagauv in the Griffith Valuations.It looks likely that he fits with the Garrett Burke who died in 1879,aged 60.Mar E Burke and family emigrated in 1881.
However,I have failed so far to find the parents of Garrett Burke or John Stanislaus Burke(probably 1849-190?) or the relationship,if,any between them.

At the time of the Griffith Valuations (1840s) there is also the record of Bedelia Burke at Clondagoff.She is the wife of James Carroll Burke,their marriage being in 1829,and he died in 1836.
I don't have any solid evidence,but given the middle name,it is possible he is a descendant of the marriage of one of the daughters of Michael Carroll of Killoran.His daughter married a John Burke and I think this is the line that becomes the Burke Baronets of MarbleHill which has been investigated before.However there is also a report of a marriage of his second(unnamed daughter) to a Thomas Burke.I haven't been able to follow this line,but it might be the only remaining possibility to find a James Francis(or Francis James?) associated with this residence.I did find a record of a John Burke Esq in a property " ..adjacent to Sir John Burke(MarbleHil)...".I'm not overly optimistic about making this connection.

Regards
Roger