Help Please - Arthur Edwin Westhorp - around 1855

[mrsearch]

Hi - I'm a newbie at genealogical research.  I'm looking for my great grandfather Arthur Edwin Westhorp, born 1855.  He married Alice Lucy Dilks in 1880 in Trinity Church, Trinity Stepney Middlesex.  His father was William Hast Westhorp (Jnr).  Her father (deceased by the time of the marriage) was George Dilks.  I have William H Westhorp's family back two generations, but Arthur seems to have disappeared!   

Arthur and Alice had at least one son - Robert Stanley Westhorp (my grandfather) - and possibly another called Gordon.  I have found Alice and Robert in the 1901 census when Alice is the head of the household, and I found Robert (aged 3) in the 1891 census.  Can't find either parent at this time and there's no sign of Gordon at all, tho' I must admit I haven't looked too hard for him.

We have some fascinating family stories about Arthur squandering money, running away and leaving Alice to raise the children as a seamstress, with my grandfather sitting under the sewing machine operating the treadle and reading... but no way of working out yet what actually happened.  Would love to find out more about Arthur if possible but I'm a bit stymied by access to records at the time as his name just doesn't come up.  Any help would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks so much...

[geniecolgan]

There's a death registered for Arthur Edwin Westhorp ....
Jan - Mar, 1889, West Ham, vol 4a, page 79, aged 34.

[geniecolgan]

There is also a birth registered for an Arthur Dilks Westhorp, Sep quarter, 1884, Poplar, vol 1c, page 633.

Given the middle name, this could be a brother of your grandfather.

[mrsearch]

Thanks so much for that - and especially for the speed of reply!  Guess that explains his absence pretty well    I had a brief look into Arthur Dilks Westhorp.  The coincidence of names seems too much to miss, so he could be a child of Arthur and Alice as well.  I'll have to go look some more.

[pjrcw]

Hi, I was really interested to read your message, as I have recently been researching my Grandfathers family - Arthur Dilks Westhorp - who I had believed to be an orphan. Grandpa was a wonderful man and very important in my early years, but unfortunately he never spoke about his early life, maybe it was just too painful.

I have discovered that - Arthur Edwin Westhorp - (his Father) died in 1889 at the age of 34 and was an engineer (from my Grandfathers marriage certificate).

I have a photograph of my Grandfather with his two brothers, one who I believe to be William Hast 1886 - 1917 and who died as a lieutenant in the first world war and another brother Robert ( I think ) , who may be your Grandfather, but I have not been able to find much about yet.
Also my Grandfather may have had a twin sister but I am not certain of this yet.

I was surprised on hearing about Alice and believe that she later changed her name to Westhoven. Also amazing to read from you about Arthurs behaviour , as it is so difficult to imagine what had happened and was most interesting.

Anyway, I hope that this has helped a little.

[mrsearch]

Well hello!  There are certainly many similarities in our information - perhaps too many to be coincidence.  I did not know my grandfather (Robert Stanley Westhorp) well - he died when I was 6 or 7, but I have older siblings who may have better memories.  Our biggest difference in information is a single family photo identified as Uncle Gordon, whom we have to date believed to be Robert's brother.  We were unaware of any other siblings until this week!  We have managed to trace Arthur Edwin back a couple of generations - his father and grandfather were both William Hast W, so another of that name is not unreasonable.  Our William Hast Jnr (Arthur Edwin's father) does not have a William Hast as a son as far as I can tell.  Perhaps Arthur E named one of his children after his father?  But if so, where or who might Gordon be?  This is a fascinating game!

On the stories regarding Arthur E's behaviour - they are just stories and I suspect have been disproved already by his early death.  The bit about Alice supporting her family by sewing, with my grandfather Robert helping with the treadle is still believable I guess.  My sense is that Robert was the youngest and our story says he left school to help out (hence the reading under the sewing machine).  If so, the fact that he ended up with a degree in naval architecture is quite something!

Thanks for the info on Alice changing her name - have been frustrated with trying to find death records etc for her and your grandfather, so this information is helpful indeed.  Back to the search!

[mrsearch]

Hello again pjrcw.  I've had a chance to collect a bit more info from my siblings since the last post.  Apparently the National Archives records from the Admiralty give Arthur Edwin's birth date as 09 August 1884, and place as Bromley-by-Bow.  Hopefully you may find this helpful in tracing Arthur Dilks further if you wish.  I can give you a URL for this info.  I'll try to work out how to do a private message and send it through on that.  There are some other bits and pieces that might prove helpful as well that I'll raise in the other format.

[pjrcw]

Hello again Mrsearch and many thanks for the info and help on tracing my Grandfathers family.
I received your private message but am not allowed to reply yet (have to send 3 public messages first).

I don’t really know who Uncle Gordon could be (maybe a family friend ??) Unfortunately both my Father (another Arthur) and myself are only children, so no help there.
I often wondered how my Grandfather received his good education, as I believed him to be an orphan. It is possible that his Grandfather - William Hast Westhorp - had something to do with this, as he would have been still living then.

Yes, a scan of Arthur E.W. and Alices marriage certificate would be very welcome. If you are interested, I could send copies of the photo of the ‘three brothers’. Two other cabinet photographs taken in the Poplar area of London could possibly be of Arthur Edwin and Alice. Everything fits but its difficult to say for sure.

[Valda]

Hi

St John Poplar 17th October 1889
Arthur Dilks and Robert Stanley Westhorp parents Arthur Edwin and Alice Lucy, 12 Galbraith Street, father's occupation - deceased
Arthur's surname spelt with 2 ps.

1891 census RG12 329 folio 59
107 Grudy? Street Poplar
Alice Westhorp 34 Head Widow Machinist Dover Kent
Arthur D Westhorp 6 Son Bromley by Bow
Robert S Westhorp 3 Son West Ham

1881 census RG11 507 folio 1?2
61 Evans Street Poplar
Alice L. Westhorpe 24 Wife Married of an Engineer Dover Kent
Alice W. Westhorpe Daughter 5 months Poplar Middlesex

Births Dec 1880   WESTHORPE  Alice Winifred    Poplar  1c 695
Deaths Mar 1884  Westhorp  Alice Winifred  3  Poplar  1c 459

There is a tree on Ancestry which gives William Hast Westhorp born West Ham 1886 as the son of William Hast Westhorp 1845-1891 and his wife Louisa Catherine Westhorp (marriage 1878 Epping). The other William Haste Westhorp birth registration is in 1883 in Worcester registration district. On the 1891 census he is the son of William Haste Westhorp a widower and tobacconist aged 30 born Liverpool Lancashire. On the 1891 census the family including a younger son and widowed mother are in Spotland Rochdale Lancashire.

A free search of the 1911 census shows Alice Lucy Westhorpe living in the West Ham area. That census may show how many children Alice had had. A search on the 1911 census cannot be requested on Rootschat because of copyright reasons.


Regards

Valda