1901 Census for Richard Rose,Southend on Sea

[kiwi]

Hi Crisane

Well, I have just had a go at ordering the marriage cert as you suggested through the GRO, so fingers crossed.  I will come back when I have a reply and hopefully a certificate.

Many thanks for your help and the website for the GRO, much appreciated.

Regards,
kiwi

[louisa maud]

Is this what you are after


St Paul's Newington
04/04/1897

Richard Rose 44 bat lab 14 Wellington St fth James Dec
to
Eliza Diwell 44 wid same address fth Robert Bourne
both signed
wit Joseph White and Jessie Diwell

Louisa Maud

[kiwi]

Hi Louisa Maude,

Thank you for replying.  It almost fits.The Richard Rose I'm after would have been about 55 in 1897, a good 10 years older. Is St Paul's Newington in the St Saviours district?

Hard to believe the two names are just what I'm looking for and not be the right people though, what are the chances of that!

Will have to do some more serious thinking.  I do appreciate the help though.

Regards,
kiwi

[crisane]

Is this what you are after


St Paul's Newington
04/04/1897

Richard Rose 44 bat lab 14 Wellington St fth James Dec
to
Eliza Diwell 44 wid same address fth Robert Bourne
both signed
wit Joseph White and Jessie Diwell
Louisa Maud

If this is the same couple as those in 1901 and 1911 then they have both fudged their ages. 1901 Richard 57 Eliza 45, 1911 Richard 68, Eliza 56.
I am going back through the censuses etc to see if I can see anything that may have been overlooked. I wonder if this is the Eliza who married the Richard Rose in 1897 with the Jessie as a witness. How it helps I have no idea and if it is then she changed  her birthplace in 1901 and 1911
1891 RG12/491/62/48 20 Amis Terrace Camberwell
Eliza Diwell 39 wid laundress Walworth Surrey
Jessie 10 dau Walworth

[louisa maud]

Newington is in St Saviours registration district, did he lie about his age?

Louisa Maud

[crisane]

My eyes are starting to roll in my head!  I took a look for a Richard Rose born c1854 to try and match him with the Richard who married Eliza Diwell and had a father James brewer. Can't find a James brewer but in 1861 RG9/318/99/47 there is James Rose 50 watchman, wife Mary Ann Richard son age 7 born Chelsea plus other siblings.
In 1881 James has died and Mary Ann 65 Emma 34 Thomas 22, Richard 28 a lab in mineral water manufacturing born Walham Green are together. RG11/557/86/47   
In 1891 he is with his brother Thomas and family and is age 38 a mineral water bottler. RG12/3731/33/22
Then 1901 RG13/516/78/35
Richard Rose House painter 49 born Fulham
Eliza Rose 49 Walworth
David Dewill Rose 21 restaurant waiter Walworth
Jessie Diwell Rose 25 ? Maid Walworth
This Richard and Eliza (now Elizabeth) are with their dau Jessie and her husband and son Frederick and Richard Baldwin in 1911.
SO the marriage cert is not your Richard  BUT  the 1901 census RG13/255/10/12 Richard born St Georges with Eliza born Bessingham Norfolk and the 1911 in Southend on Sea is most possibly yours. Age, where born, occupation and resudence in 1911 spot on. The downside is that it looks as if Richard and Eliza may not have married.
All this fuss because NZ BMD's don't have the record of the marriage for Richard and Caroline.

[kiwi]

Hi Louisa Maude and Crisane,
Louisa Maude; I get the feeling that Richard may have lied about a lot of things but he seems to have been fairly consistant about his occupation.  I don't think being a labourer was in his arsenal, more merchant, clerk etc. I did wonder why he put himself down as a bachelor instead of a widower.
Crisane; The 1901 etc census show them as man and wife, but that may have been just 'show' for the general public.  Do you reckon the death cert for Eliza in Rochford in 1915 would show if she had been really married or just a common law wife. I guess if Richard was the informant he would put wife.
The ITM's in Wellington show Richard was 28 when he married in 1871!
I might have to approach the whole thing from a different angle, maybe look for a will or something
Thanks for all your help from a still reeling,
kiwi

[crisane]

Possible death registration from FreeBMD:

Richard Rose      MarQ 1929    Rochford   4a   1162          age given  =  86

Southend is in the Rochford registration district.

Nanny Jan

It may be more to the point to get this death certificate to see who is the informant on it. (Mind you I am loath to even mention buying certs now)
Looking at ancestry they don't seem to have probate of a will for a Richard Rose who death was registered in March 1/4 in 1929. May have to look at the National Archives

[kiwi]

Hi Crisane,

Richards Grand-daughter asked me to get the death cert and is willing to accept an educated guess, so hopefully it will give us some sort of a clue.

I will ask her if she has any ideas on Richards Will, he seemed to stay in touch with his youngest daughter so there may be something there tucked away in her memory. 

Thanks for all your help, if I come up with some new info I will be back for help if you can all stand it

Regards,
kiwi