Author Topic: nickgc's Scavenger Hunt...Everyone Welcome To Join In  (Read 18803 times)

Offline majm

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Re: nickgc's Scavenger Hunt...Everyone Welcome To Join In
« Reply #90 on: Saturday 29 September 12 08:24 BST (UK) »
I have trannscribed many NSW records and regularly noticed that Mary is usual option BUT on enarging the image it becomes Marg

I dont have offline resources for Forbes circa 1864 but I do have Margaret C as a yeacher and as a married woman in the Municipalty on various offline resources for Henry HUNT ...  who set up the school with government funding.   Some family of mine attended school there in Brown St as boarders in the 1950s.  Local history was taught in lead up to celebrating in 1961 of 100 years being an incorporated township.

JM
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Offline majm

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Re: nickgc's Scavenger Hunt...Everyone Welcome To Join In
« Reply #91 on: Saturday 29 September 12 08:43 BST (UK) »
I have just phoned a friend ... Confirming a female teacher in NSW in that era would be recorded using HER OWN given name and NOT her husband's given name IF and ONY IF she was a widow.  So Mrs Margaret CHISHOLM of Spring St Forbes a teacher was most likely a wdow at that time.

I read Trove cuttings suggesting Wm Chisholm's wife was teaching at his Goulburn school

Cheers JM using tiny e reader keyboard
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
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Offline deb usa

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Re: nickgc's Scavenger Hunt...Everyone Welcome To Join In
« Reply #92 on: Saturday 29 September 12 15:47 BST (UK) »
Hi

JM thanks for all the info!

I was going through the newspapers again and found these 3 items, the wording leads me to believe that William has left Goulburn or that he has died ...what do you think:

Friday 2 July 1858
LIST OF ESTATES SEQUESTRATED FROM 1st APRIL, TO 30th JUNE, 1858.
William Chisholm, late of Goulburn, schoolmaster .

Tuesday 10 August 1858
INSOLVENT COURT.-MONDAY .
(Before the Chief Commissioner of Insolvent Estates.}
GENERAL BUSINESS.
In the estate of William Chisholm, this was a first meeting. Two debts were proved, and the meeting terminated.

Friday 13 August 1858
In the estate of William Chisholm, a second meeting. Insolvent was not present, nor did any creditor prove. The Chief Commissioner adjourned the meet- ing until the 24th instant, such adjourned meeting to be held at Bathurst.


deb  :-\
Travellers = Penfold, Orchard, James
Devon = Middleton,  Waterfield, Adams, Clark/e, Gould
Cornwall = Palmer, Carnarton, Slack/Smith. Morris/h
Wales, New Quay = James, Evans


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Offline majm

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Re: nickgc's Scavenger Hunt...Everyone Welcome To Join In
« Reply #93 on: Sunday 30 September 12 02:41 BST (UK) »
Hi

In NSW Sesquestration orders

2 July 1858
“late of” indicates where the person is living at the time of the lodgement of the initial application.    It does not indicate that the person is no longer living.    For example,  XYZ, late of Sydney, formerly of Melbourne, native of Hobart Town  means the person is “laterly” (recently and now) living in Sydney, and previous to that lived in Melbourne, and was born in Hobart Town. 

10 August 1858
“in the estate of William Chisholm” is indicating he is still alive,  and had travelled to /or had ‘removed’ himself to Sydney ….. either to attend the court or to “realise” or to “recover” his personal property that was subject to the sequestration order.   First Meeting, two debts proved, thus he was formally bankrupted.

13 August 1858
“Insolvent was not present”. ….”adjourned….. to ….. Bathurst” …… So the Court was aware (perhaps from info provided by William on Monday 9 August) that he was going to Bathurst to try to sort out some of his own financial issues.   

Bathurst in the 1850s and 1860s was one of the central administrative townships associated with the GOLD RUSHES.   One of the consequences of the Gold rushes was the effect on the price of everyday essentials.  They became grossly inflated (supply v demand) as the 1840s workforce caught gold fever in a big way and sought to capitalise on the  1850s-1860’s rushes.    It is also possible that Wm’s Grammar School was severely affected by that rampaging inflation as he would have set his annual fees at the end of each calendar year for the ensuing year, but during that “next year” the stress on wages, food, transport of school supplies, etc would have ‘got away’ from his budget.   

Perhaps he spent much of the latter part of 1858 trying to track down his debtors (parents who had sent their sons to him to make them ‘gentlemen’) so he could pay his creditors.     By the mid 1850s the boat arrivals had delivered far more ‘emigrants’ in those several years than in all the years of the penal era.  Also the population had become transient and there were many very cheap berths on vessels  returning to Britain.  It is my understanding that the rapid growth in the value of many colonial families estates saw them taking their sons out of colonial schooling and sending them back to relatives in Britain for their formal education.   

In NSW “In the Deceased Estate of”  and “In the Intestate of” are the usual ways the NSW Courts dealt with the “real” property of a deceased person.   Sequestrated Estates are about Bankrupting a living person.

Hope this clears that aspect up.  BUT I AM NOT YET CONVINCED that Wm Chisholm, of the Goulburn Grammar School in the 1850s was the same chap that arrived as an assisted emigrant in 1839.    I do think it likely that the Mrs Margaret Chisholm of Forbes was the widow of the William Chisholm whose death was registered at the Forbes Court House.  It is logical to me that the family would follow the gold fever trail and be in that district by around 1861. 

That 1855 marriage was a C of E (Anglican) marriage (not a Presbyterian one) and is recorded in the  St Saviour (Argyle) register.  It took place just prior to the introduction of Civil Registration in NSW, so I do not anticipate the NSW BDM records to contain ANY details of the parentage of either the Bride or the Groom.    That is why I am suggesting either the NSW BDM death cert for Wm or Marg OR her deceased estate file.   By 1855 Nick’s Wm had been in the colony for around 25 years,   15 years (my typo) long enough to have married, become a father, been widowed and sought to find a new wife to help raise his existing family.   Perhaps the Geo  Chisholm at Forbes was somehow related to that Wm.   If so, then he too was a young chap when he died.

Copies of official records should sort out the Chisholm conundrum.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XTZ8-JXT
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XTZZ-LX5
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XTZ3-PKQ

Oh, nearly forgot ..... The 1855 marriage is recorded in THREE different Parish Registers, but ONLY once at NSW BDM online… Very unusual for only ONE entry, suggesting the NSW BDM Early Church Record is drawn from a summary transmitted to the Bishop and then forwarded to NSW BDM in around 1879 when the C of E commenced handing over some summary information.   

Cheers,  JM   
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
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Offline majm

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Re: nickgc's Scavenger Hunt...Everyone Welcome To Join In
« Reply #94 on: Sunday 30 September 12 03:09 BST (UK) »
I am sending a PM to an RChatter who MAY be visiting the NSW SRO's offices on the outskirts of Sydney.  Perhaps the RChatter may have some spare moments to take a peek at the two Deceased Estates or at the Sequestration File noted on NSW SRO indexes:

Insolvency Index
William CHISHOLM, Sydney, Schoolmaster, 18/06/1858, File Number 04175,

Deceased Estates Index   both are on reel 3025, both have Duty Paid 8 Jan 1891, and so the Item number is same too [19/10186]; [20/24B] 
George CHISHOLM, Forbes DD 11/10/1890,
Margaret H CHISHOLM, Forbes DD 18/10/1890

Trying to confirm/eliminate the William Chisholm, Schoolmaster in 1858 from the death in Forbes of William Chisholm in 1864 without obtaining the NSW BDM dc for him.

Cheers,  JM
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
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Offline majm

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Re: nickgc's Scavenger Hunt...Everyone Welcome To Join In
« Reply #95 on: Sunday 30 September 12 03:45 BST (UK) »
NSW Government Gazette Feb 1859

Unclaimed letters at the Sydney GPO, showing which rural district they were returned from:   
List No. 4, dated 15th February 1859 (starts at page 487, alphabetical by surname , 64 pages, around 120 names per page)
At page 488, from Bathurst , for W. Chisholm

Cheers,  JM
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
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Offline nickgc

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Re: nickgc's Scavenger Hunt...Everyone Welcome To Join In
« Reply #96 on: Sunday 30 September 12 05:54 BST (UK) »
Thank you both again, Deb and JM.

JM - I'm grateful we have someone on this who is so familiar with the Australian records... I am a loss at them.

I should have noticed that "St Saviour Argyle" didn't sound like a Presbyterian church;  but I do have a presby Scots 2x great grandfather that married his first wife (of this Chisholm family) in a presby church and his second, equally presby Scots wife in an Anglican church (both in Nova Scotia).  Now if St Saviour had been Catholic I would have been worried...

I've been trying - without success -to find something on this Cameron family to see if it helps explain anything.

I also have to wonder if the action against William in Australia in 1858 had anything to do with him being cited in the 1858 Scotland sequestration of his brother Donald's estate, also in 1858.  I suspect it was coincidence that they happened about the same time.

I'll probably have to break down and get the 1864 death cert for William, but I think that would be it.  If it doesn't have all the pertinent fields (e.g mother's maiden name) filled in then it will be too bad.

One correction:  in 1855 William (1839) had been in Australia just over 15 years.

Nick



McLellan - Inverness
Greer - Renfrewshire
Manson - Aberdeen & Orkney
Simpson - Hereford, Devon, etc.
Flett - Orkney
Chisholm - Scotland
Wishart - Orkney
Shand - Aberdeen
Pirie - Aberdeen

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Theology is never any help; it is searching in a dark cellar at midnight for a black cat that isn't there.   -Robert Heinlein

Offline majm

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Re: nickgc's Scavenger Hunt...Everyone Welcome To Join In
« Reply #97 on: Sunday 30 September 12 06:05 BST (UK) »
One correction:  in 1855 William (1839) had been in Australia just over 15 years.

My typo  :-[  I will fix,  the point I was making is more valid ( ::) ) as any children from any previous marriage would likely be just that, children !

Cheers,  JM
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
Random Acts of Kindness Given Freely are never Worthless for they are Priceless.
Qui scit et non docet.    Qui docet et non vivit.    Qui nescit et non interrogat.   
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Offline nickgc

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Re: nickgc's Scavenger Hunt...Everyone Welcome To Join In
« Reply #98 on: Monday 01 October 12 23:51 BST (UK) »
I want to thank all the participants in this hunt who provided such great information on this family.  I'm fairly certain that we have uncovered just about everything that we could, and with a high degree of "goodness of fit".

Over the weekend I was able to find a possible death for Alexander, b 1802, in Antigonish, Nova Scotia, the county adjacent to where his brother Hugh died.  It was in 1876, he was a bachelor born Inverness,Scotland, and the age was right.  In addition, he died of heart disease which seems to be what killed this whole family.   I also found a stone (was sent a photo and inscription by ghostwhisperer) for Eliza's (1812- 1869) and her family at Drumtemple Cemetery.

Finally, I found that Margaret's (b 1809) death was reported in Inverness Town in 1864 by her 18 year old son Colin.

A good week!

Thanks again.

Nick   
McLellan - Inverness
Greer - Renfrewshire
Manson - Aberdeen & Orkney
Simpson - Hereford, Devon, etc.
Flett - Orkney
Chisholm - Scotland
Wishart - Orkney
Shand - Aberdeen
Pirie - Aberdeen

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Theology is never any help; it is searching in a dark cellar at midnight for a black cat that isn't there.   -Robert Heinlein