40 year mystery - Canada, British Army?

[Lisa in California]

Last year, I posted a thread on the Armed Forces board regarding Canada, British Army Reg Rolls.  I am hoping that someone on the Canada board might have suggestions, please?
Link to the thread:  http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=661538.0

My question:  were errors ever made on the regimental rolls?  Could this man have actually deserted, not died?  I am wondering if he could be my ancestor, who didn't pass away until 1885.
Canada, British (Army) Regimental Rolls
John Ovens, born c1811
Birthplace: South Walkins, Fermanagh
Attestation Date: 5 March 1829, Enmskillen, regimental number 679
Died 26 Oct 1835
   Looking at the image, his birthplace could be Enish=MacSaint

As explained on the previous thread, we believe the following to be true about my ancestor, John Ovens:
John Ovens, baptised 23 June 1811.  Parents Wm Ovens and Elizth (Stinson).  Townland: Corclune/Corcloon, Inishmacsaint.
[Children also born to William Ovens and Elizabeth Stinson were Alexr and Anne.]
["Our" John Ovens was born c1809/1811.]
John Ovens married Jane Wakefield in New Jersey, USA in 1842.
In 1852, he is shown on the Newark East Ward census as a teacher.
In 1856, he is shown in Toronto, Ontario as a fancy goods dealer.  He and his family remained in Toronto.

Is it possible to find out where John Ovens died in 1835?
Is it possible that this John Ovens deserted and ended up in New Jersey?
Any help would be gratefully appreciated.  Thank you for reading this long thread.  Lisa

[JDC]

Hi Lisa,

Canada did not become independent from Britain until 1867, so the dates you are referring to your ancestors would likely be part of the regular British forces or militia while in UK or Canada if part of the army or navy. I haven't had the time to thoroughly go through your info in the other query, but there are military museums that you can contact, such as the one in London, Ontario that may be an avenue to gain info. I would think that the local Canadian Legion might be another avenue. Veterans' affairs might be a 3rd.

I hope this helps,

JDC

[Lisa in California]

Hi JDC:

Thank you for the excellent suggestions.  I will write to the museum office first and see if they can refer me to an organization that may have some answers.

It would be very nice to be able to determine if this man could have deserted.  There are two other John Ovens who served in the military around that time (one was stationed in Australia and the other died in England) and if we are correct with our research, our John is related to them.  If this man did actually die in 1835, then my John most likely was not the son of William Ovens and Elizabeth Stinson Ovens.   

[Lisa in California]

May 8, 2023. [Now 50 years after first trying to find the birthplace and parents of our John Ovens. (We visited Ireland when I was a child.)]

I am still looking for John Ovens.  I am still wondering if John Ovens who was recorded on the regimental rolls was “my” John Ovens.

In 2014, I contacted the resources that JDC recommended.  I believe two did not reply, the third was unable to help.

I am hoping, since my last post, that additional resources may now be available where I may search.
I have details about John Ovens’ life after 1855 (in Canada) and that of his family members.
He died in 1885; only Ireland is recorded as his birthplace.
In 1850, he was recorded on the Newark East Ward, New Jersey census.
John was recorded in a few New Jersey (Newark or Jersey City) directories c1850.
I have a birth document for one of John’s sons; no helpful details were recorded about John.
John was supposedly married in 1842 in New Jersey. I don’t believe I ever found a marriage document for him.
In 1840, a John Ovens is recorded in a United Methodist Church Record (Anc*try) but there is no way to determine if he is my John.

I would really like to find out if the regimental roll was or was not for my John.  If it was not for him then I need to continue to look for his birth.

Thank you for taking the time to read this. Apologies for posting this topic again (but I’m desperate).    Lisa

[ShaunJ]

Is it possible to find out where John Ovens died in 1835?

Most of the 8th Foot was in Jamaica in October 1835, with its depot in Buttevant, County Cork. 

[shume]

Have just joined this thread so apologies if this has already been covered.
Ancestry has records of UK Army and regimental rolls and the information given is John Ovens attested 1829 died 1835. The records are for Non Effective soldiers and you can see from the RHS they are all deserters or deceased. I realise you have given RC this info but how can you be sure your John died later than this and that he did marry in New Jersey?
Name   John Ovens
Birth Year   abt 1811
Birth Place   South Walkins,Fermanagh
Age at Attestation   18
Attestation Date   5 Mar 1829
Attestation Place   Eniskillen Inishmacsaint
Regimental Number   679

[Lisa in California]

Thank you very much for the information, Shaun.  I will make note of it in my records.

I may have mentioned in the other thread but if I didn’t:
During our Ireland visit 50 years ago, my mum met whom we believed to be a distant relative.  “Honora” firmly believed that we were related.  She was rather embarrassed to say it at the time but she thought perhaps our connection was through a John Ovens in her family that was the “black sheep” of the family. When I found the regimental rolls, I thought of Honora’s comment and wondered if the death should have actually been desertion. Honora had two distinguished military men in her family named John Ovens. I would imagine that having a family member desert the military around the same time that the other men lived would indeed be upsetting.

I’m now the only one left in the family who would like resolution; perhaps it’s time that I give up on our John’s real birthplace.

[Lisa in California]

Hi shume.  Thank you so much for posting…I will reply in a few moments.

[Lisa in California]

My John Ovens was born 1809/1811 (both years have been recorded) in Co. Fermanagh. I have various records including census returns, births and deaths, etc.  I believe his marriage details were included in his wife’s obituary.  (She died at age 105 so a fairly good sized column was written about her life.  Of course, errors can occur, so there is no proof that the marriage details are correct.)

The actual regimental image looks like Inishmacsaint as the man’s place of birth.  I have no proof that my John was born there; it just seemed coincidental that a John was born baptized to William Ovens and Eliza. Stinson, in Inishmacsaint. A Jennie Stinson was with John and his family in the 1881 Ontario census.  I have wondered if there was a connection with the Stinsons.

I am hoping that John deserted otherwise it is likely that he is the son born to William Ovens and Eliza. Stinson as his birthplace baptismal place was recorded as Inishmacsaint.

Thank you for asking the question.  Apologies for taking so long to reply.

Added: actually, the birthplace baptismal place for a John Ovens, son of William Ovens and Eliza. Stinson was Corclune/Corcloon, Inishmacsaint.

Added: John could have married in 1843.  Jane’s obit mentioned her birth on Christmas Day, 1822.  Her family settled in Jersey City in 1840.  She was “scarcely 20” when she married John. Another article stated that she was not quite 20.