Author Topic: WW2 German plane crashes in St Audries Bay, West Somerset, England,  (Read 11794 times)

Offline Goldipaws

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Re: WW2 German plane crashes in St Audries Bay, West Somerset, England,
« Reply #27 on: Sunday 23 November 14 18:24 GMT (UK) »
Hi Svenja, I've managed to open your links but the third one is in German and I can't translate it and my computer won't either!  It's a gremlins day for my computers I'm afraid, sorry to ask, but can you re send an English translation please?
Many thanks
Goldie

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Offline Goldipaws

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Re: WW2 German plane crashes in St Audries Bay, West Somerset, England,
« Reply #28 on: Sunday 23 November 14 18:48 GMT (UK) »
Sounds like
Do 217 E-2, Wk Nr 1123, U5+EM of 4/KG 2., Shot down by 307 Sqn near Watchet 2218 hrs. Lt Bruno Adler, Uffz Fritz Bartol, Uffz Kurt Skowronnek, Gefr Johann Egger missing
 
I'm not sure if this information is correct, or if it's our men but I found it on another internet site.

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Offline Svenja

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Re: WW2 German plane crashes in St Audries Bay, West Somerset, England,
« Reply #29 on: Sunday 23 November 14 19:36 GMT (UK) »
Hi Goldipaws

You can see the content of the record from the National Archives here:
http://www.polishsquadronsremembered.com/reports/Turzanski1.htm

I know the names you mention and I have searched for them,
but they neither are in the database of the Volksbund nor elsewhere.

Oh I see there it is 4/KG2 on the report it is 2/KG2, what is right?
I think 1, 3 and 4 were in Russia at that time, so it must be 2/KG2.

Regards
Svenja
Switzerland + USA: Iten, Letter, Besmer, Mathis, Meier, Schwager
Germany/Bavaria: Beinberger, Painberger, Pracht/Bracht, Schleich, Pfeiffer
Germany/Franken: Weidner, Reuss, Beifuss, Trenkert, Drenkert, Drenkart
Germany/Jewish: Bachmann, Bamberger, Straus(s), Kraus(s), Lehmann, Gutmann
I can read and write German, English and French.
I can translate from Italian and Latin to the above languages.

Offline Goldipaws

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Re: WW2 German plane crashes in St Audries Bay, West Somerset, England,
« Reply #30 on: Sunday 23 November 14 20:31 GMT (UK) »
Oh thank you so much Svenja,
It was so frustrating having got so near and then not be able to open the file, that's brilliant.

Now what? If the names aren't there in Volskbund data base or anywhere else is there any reason why they are not there?

Maybe someone can throw some light on it?

Many thanks again
Goldie

Offline Malcolm33

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Re: WW2 German plane crashes in St Audries Bay, West Somerset, England,
« Reply #31 on: Sunday 23 November 14 20:55 GMT (UK) »
Sounds like
Do 217 E-2, Wk Nr 1123, U5+EM of 4/KG 2., Shot down by 307 Sqn near Watchet 2218 hrs. Lt Bruno Adler, Uffz Fritz Bartol, Uffz Kurt Skowronnek, Gefr Johann Egger missing
 
I'm not sure if this information is correct, or if it's our men but I found it on another internet site.

The forum you looked at, Goldi, was this one - http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?p=192105

    I have been trying to puzzle out the figures in the Action report.    The plotting counters in operations showed the height in '000's' and beneath the number of aircraft coming in.   Other figures were pinned above that gave the number of the intercepting squadron.   So 'raid 57 northbound' sounds like 57 bombers.   However 'southbound raid no 381' sounds like to big a figure to be the number of aircraft at that time and in that area.   Therefore I wonder if it could be the Track Number?      Tracks were assigned by the Officer in the Filter Room once it became clear what direction incoming aircraft were taking.     We then need to consider what this figure may mean - 'and when at 13000 feet at 2204 hrs. at T 8146 '.      Again this could be a track number, cannot be altitude as that was 13000 feet.    Might be a position with the last two digits of latitude and longitude.    If only my late brother-in-law was still alive - Ted was a Radar WO and at one time at Bentley, Stanmore.    I'll pose the question in an RAF forum I am member of.
    I also think I can write a note for our Teutonia Club newsletter, just in case we have a relative.
    I wonder too, Goldi if your local newspaper would like to take up the story if your friend has no objection?
Hutton: Eccleshill,Queensbury
Grant: Babworth,Chinley
Draffan: Lesmahagow,Douglas,Coylton, Consett
Oliver: Tanfield, Sunderland, Consett
Proudlock: Northumberland
Turnbull:Northumberland, Durham
Robson:Sunderland, Northumberland
Dent: Dufton, Arkengarthdale, Hunstanworth
Currie: Coylton
Morris and Hurst: East Retford, Blyth, Worksop
Elliot: Castleton, Hunstanworth, Consett
Tassie, Greenshields

Offline Svenja

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Re: WW2 German plane crashes in St Audries Bay, West Somerset, England,
« Reply #32 on: Sunday 23 November 14 21:05 GMT (UK) »
Hi Goldiepaws

If someone who died in the war is not mentioned on the online database of the Volksbund, that must not mean that the Volksbund has no information about him. So a request could be helpful, but I think they need to know more details. You said that some times ago someone contacted the british family and asked them to put flowers on the grave. So they knew that their son/brother was buried there, but who told them this fact? During the war it was usually not the Volksbund who told the families that and where their sons had died. I think it was someone of the Luftwaffe or after the war the WASt oder DRK who told the family what happened with their son/brother. But without names and date and place of birth they can't help to find the records. I think we should wait for the answer of the Volksbund (Malcolm said he has sent an enquiry), as I know they work together with WASt and DRK in some cases.

Regards
Svenja

Switzerland + USA: Iten, Letter, Besmer, Mathis, Meier, Schwager
Germany/Bavaria: Beinberger, Painberger, Pracht/Bracht, Schleich, Pfeiffer
Germany/Franken: Weidner, Reuss, Beifuss, Trenkert, Drenkert, Drenkart
Germany/Jewish: Bachmann, Bamberger, Straus(s), Kraus(s), Lehmann, Gutmann
I can read and write German, English and French.
I can translate from Italian and Latin to the above languages.

Offline Goldipaws

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Re: WW2 German plane crashes in St Audries Bay, West Somerset, England,
« Reply #33 on: Sunday 23 November 14 21:16 GMT (UK) »
Hi Svenja

you mentioned 11/KG2's. This is what is written on the NA file.... ll/KG2 equipped with Do217
I don't know what this means but I hope you do?
Again thank you for your latest reply arrived while wading through everything  :).
My friend who has put the poppies on the graves for all these years only remembers that his mother was contacted by someone?? And sent letters with money for her to put poppies on the grave, this she did and then after she died he continued doing it. Sadly no letters exist today and he has no idea who they came from but guessed it was from a member of the family.  He was only a small child at the time and can't remember any more details.
I will quiz again just in case he can think of anything else.

Thank you for your help,
Best regards
Goldie

Offline Malcolm33

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Re: WW2 German plane crashes in St Audries Bay, West Somerset, England,
« Reply #34 on: Sunday 23 November 14 21:26 GMT (UK) »
   For a moment I thought we might have a time problem.  The Action report by Sgt.Turzanski states that it took place at 22.15 hours and the Luftwaffe report gives the time as 22.18 hours which I guess is the minute they lost radio contact.    France is normally one hour ahead of Britain and I did realise immediately that double summer time accounted for the same time, but then thought it had ended by 1st November.   Now I see that it was only the extra hour that stopped in August:
S.R.&O. 1941 No. 476 (Emergency Powers (Defence)—Summer Time)
•Long title: Order in Council amending the Defence (Summer Time) Regulations, 1939.
•Date: 4th April 1941.

This order, under the Emergency Powers (Defence) Acts, 1939 and 1940, amended the Defence (Summer Time) Regulations, 1939 to provide for double summer time, during which period the time was two hours in advance of Greenwich mean time, starting on the day after the first Saturday in May and ending on the day after the second Saturday in August, both at 1am Greenwich mean time (rather than the previously used 2am). The time for the rest of the year remained one hour in advance of GMT. The order provided savings for certain contracts with agricultural workers and concerning the production of milk: for those purposes, the time was to be taken to be one hour in advance of GMT throughout the year, unless the parties to the contract agreed otherwise.
Hutton: Eccleshill,Queensbury
Grant: Babworth,Chinley
Draffan: Lesmahagow,Douglas,Coylton, Consett
Oliver: Tanfield, Sunderland, Consett
Proudlock: Northumberland
Turnbull:Northumberland, Durham
Robson:Sunderland, Northumberland
Dent: Dufton, Arkengarthdale, Hunstanworth
Currie: Coylton
Morris and Hurst: East Retford, Blyth, Worksop
Elliot: Castleton, Hunstanworth, Consett
Tassie, Greenshields

Offline Goldipaws

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Re: WW2 German plane crashes in St Audries Bay, West Somerset, England,
« Reply #35 on: Sunday 23 November 14 21:34 GMT (UK) »
I'm so pleased your happy with all that! :D I'm smiling as I must look so dumb! But at least it all makes sense to you, so now what's the plan? I've asked for more answers from my friend but I don't know if there will be any, but fingers crossed!
I love puzzles but this is amazing.
Many thanks again
Goldie