Allan Neill Private Royal Army Service Corps service number 224240/ 2202110

[groom]

So as we thought. Something happened after the birth of the second child to make Margaret give her up, what we may never know. I also wonder why Margaret went to London in the middle of the war rather than stay in the relative safety of Scotland?

Reads:

Allan Neill
Plumber
(Private, RASC)
Usual Residence 9, Preston Street, Rosewell ?
Margaret Handlin Neill
MS Milroy

Can't make out the last bit, looks like 1940 off 30th Rosewell.

[SHUSHIE]

So as we thought. Something happened after the birth of the second child to make Margaret give her up, what we may never know. I also wonder why Margaret went to London in the middle of the war rather than stay in the relative safety of Scotland?

Reads:

Allan Neill
Plumber
(Private, RASC)
Usual Residence 9, Preston Street, Rosewell ?
Margaret Handlin Neill
MS Milroy

Can't make out the last bit, looks like 1940 off 30th Rosewell.

Thank you Groom so we agree its deffo his child he had 2 with Margaret, It does seem strange to go to London? perhaps Neill was posted there? Margaret seemed to stay in London during the war as 2 more kids were born there 1942 and 1946 I don't know how much leave during the war a soldier would have? but she was married to Neill for 9 years and they only had 2 kids? so perhaps he was a prisoner of war during that time? and she met Colson in the mean time? Neill could have been captured in Singapore? or couldn't get back but it seems he never got back after his 2nd child was born otherwise I suspect he would have had at least another child with Margaret and perhaps she thought he was not coming back or thought he was dead? all this is just speculation but it don't explain why you would go with your new husband and your child and his child and leave your other child?

[SHUSHIE]

Can I ask How do I change the Header for this thread IE Alan Neill as I wont to put in his service number and his regiment in case anyone else is looking  I have gone through my account and can not find how to do it...TIA

[groom]

Can I ask How do I change the Header for this thread IE Alan Neill as I wont to put in his service number and his regiment in case anyone else is looking  I have gone through my account and can not find how to do it...TIA

I don't think that you can change things after 24 hours. You need to ask a Mod to do it for you. Just click on the report to Mod after the post.

I think most of your last post is speculation and perhaps the only way you will ever find out is to either make contact with one of Allan's second family in the hope that they know, or get Allan's service records. How do you know he was anywhere near Singapore?

Personally, I would think it highly unlikely that Margaret would have followed Allan to London during the war as he was only a private and would have been likely to have been posted anywhere, including abroad at a moment's notice.

[SHUSHIE]

Can I ask How do I change the Header for this thread IE Alan Neill as I wont to put in his service number and his regiment in case anyone else is looking  I have gone through my account and can not find how to do it...TIA

I don't think that you can change things after 24 hours. You need to ask a Mod to do it for you. Just click on the report to Mod after the post.

I think most of your last post is speculation and perhaps the only way you will ever find out is to either make contact with one of Allan's second family in the hope that they know, or get Allan's service records. How do you know he was anywhere near Singapore?

Personally, I would think it highly unlikely that Margaret would have followed Allan to London during the war as he was only a private and would have been likely to have been posted anywhere, including abroad at a moment's notice.

I found an Allan Neill private  British Prisoner Singapore in a search so its only guess work I haven't sent for the details has its quite expensive at the moment but the time line of birth of his last child 1942 and Margaret remarried in 49 and leaving for USA is quite a few a years past but Neill had to have been in London in 1942 his name is on my ladies birth as father(see previous post) and according to legal side of registering a birth father had to be present ( according to previous post someone stated  he had to give permission I have read  give permission or prove he is the father)? I personally don't know about WW2 and fathers and babies that is why I am asking on here for HELP, yes my opinion is speculation but also quite a few others as well including you and its the opinion of others that could help piece together with or without speculation to piece together this and try and find the truth anyway thank you all so much for your help you have been stars I do hope my lady actually finds out why she was dumped before? I will look now for family to try and get answers Thank you all again ,,Really hope a family member searching for the same see's this...

[KGarrad]

Since 1874, when a married woman registers the birth of a child, her husband is assumed to be the father, unless the woman says otherwise.

If the woman is single, or states a different father to her husband, then that man has to be present at the registration AND give his permission for his name to be included as the father.

But, the whole process is informant led; the Registrar just writes down what he has been told by the parent(s), and no proof is asked for.

[groom]

One thought that has crossed my mind, following on from KG's post is that Allan may not be the biological father of the second baby. As he said "Since 1874, when a married woman registers the birth of a child, her husband is assumed to be the father, unless the woman says otherwise." 

We need to know where Allan was 9 months before her birth, if he was abroad that would rule him out! We know that Margaret was in London for the birth, but doesn't necessarily mean that Allan was.

[Annette7]

Since Allan Neill's address was give as Islington on the 1942 birth certificate he had been/or was  in London.  I still feel that this is why Margaret came to London too.     We then know that something traumatic happened around birth of 2nd child.   The mention of Allan Neill possibly being a POW in Singapore would certainly come under 'traumatic' as presumably he would initially have been reported as 'missing in action' and would also explain how the Red Cross came to be involved.  I still firmly believe that Allan Neill was the father of the 2nd. child (if it had been another mans, for instance, I don't think this would entail any involvement by the Red Cross). 

We can't know what effect this had on Margaret at the time and all the various assumptions being made are somewhat fanciful I feel.   

I still feel that the fact the Red Cross were involved would indicate that something had indeed happened to Allan Neill during his Army Service and we simply cannot know why his wife felt she could not cope with her newborn., only that she did.   We only know that she went back to Scotland with her toddler and newborn baby probably with the help of the Red Cross.   Once there she obviously couldn't cope and the baby went into care.   She could initially have gone to pieces and perhaps the relevant families  weren't as supportive as they could have been.  A mention was made earlier of a family member being rejected as being unsuitable to take the baby.

Margaret may have remained in Scotland for quite a while but we just don't know.   The impression given on the thread is that she returned to 'dump' the child and swiftly returned to London and I doubt that was the case.   

The bottom line is that we don't know and I don't think the various negative assumptions are helping.

I would agree that the next step would be to try and find descendants of Allan Neill from a second marriage where more facts/truth of the situation may emerge.

Annette

[giblet]

Sorry to butt in, i have been following this thread.

I would contact the Scotland archives concerning obtaining the divorce record for Margaret and Allan. I obtained my grandmother's divorce records without any problems, her divorce was in the same era 1940's. It made interesting reading Re: mentions of kids she had in care at Barnardos and also the child she gave up for adoption.
Could be worth dropping them a email as if these records can be obtained it could answer a lot of questions and put some light on the situation.