Author Topic: World War One. Gipsy Roll of Honour.  (Read 21971 times)

Offline panished

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Re: World War One. Gipsy Roll of Honour.
« Reply #180 on: Sunday 05 July 20 11:42 BST (UK) »
part six

Sir Walter Scott it is often said was the person who invented Scotland, as in how we think of it now, he was raised in the Borders, he collected vast amounts of songs stories and ballads, folk lore music fables and histories, he seemed to me to be fascinated by violent men and deeds, he was a man well verst in everything if everything could be found, to seek everything is a deed worthy of only the greatest of minds, he often mixed songs or verse to suit a story or poem, I have come to understand more of what is going on through the minds of the so-called Gipsy Scholors of the past and present by reading the mind of Scott who I think as been misunderstood and to me is a fine writer with much to give to the world,  scott had a great affinity with Scotland and clans like the Douglas, it is wrote that he himself as conections to the Douglas, conections to the Border Reviers,  who he also writes of, some say in a romantic  way, unlike the writings of the Winter Family. The Border Reviers and  all the histories of the Douglas were of the most savage you could imagine yet Scott talks not like the judge in regards to them,  the times I write of  spans hundreds of yeares of Border history.  There is also the times of the covernats, not to mention the Romans, a long violent history is the ledgandary Borders known by several names and inhabited by many right up to the lowland clearancers a great history with many people one of those peoples were the Gipsies, it is wrote by later scholors after Scott that Gipsies are connected with the old Tinkler families who are connected to the Picts and such, there were great waves of Scotts and Irish movement back and forth, it is sujested that there is conections with the Gipsies and the old Clans, something is going on in these writings, writers I now find write in a interlectual code at times, I am just trying to identify if what Walter Simons says has any historical truth, can he be trusted, are later writers who take up the story of the Black Tinklers frightening children in a rasicim sence just copying older writers who were just changing history in a way that they were making a statement of thought that may yet have to be found.
Do not forget to the story of the Spider and Robert of Bruce. For hundreds years, this story of Robert the Bruce did not include a spider. It is believed that the first reference to a spider came from Sir Walter Scott’s 1827 book Tales of A Grandfather being Stories Taken from Scottish History. the spider story seems to have been first written about Bruce’s friend Sir James “The Black” Douglas, DavidHume of Godscroft (1560 – 1630) in his The History of the House of Douglas, which was published posthumously in 1643. Don’t forget also it is wrote Hume was a  friend of and secretary to the 8th Earl of Angus, Archibald Douglas. In this book it says:
“…I spied a spider clymbing by his webb to the height of an trie and at 12 several times I perceived his web broke, and the spider fel to the ground. But the 13 tyme he attempted and clambe up the tree..." i found these old writings so Scott when writing and giving to the world is fantastic mind should be watched closley, you will never find him though, indeed he is the Wizard as he came to be known, the Wizard of the North was his name given way back.
Sir James Douglas (also known as Guid Sir James and the Black Douglas), 'The blak Dowglas', (1286 – August 25, 1330), was a Scottish soldier and battle-hardened knight  who fought in the Scottish Wars of Independence. His grandfather was killed alongside William Wallace, his father murdered in an English jail. It is wrote he was a sinister and murderous force “mair fell than wes ony devill in hell.”  In the Scottish chronicles he is almost always referred to as “The Guid” or “The Good”.   
Sir Walter Scott wrote that the English in a what came to be known as a (Northern English lullaby)
Named Sir James “The Black Douglas” for his dark deeds in English eyes, becoming the Bogeyman  in the  said lullaby

“Hush ye, hush ye, little pet ye.
Hush ye, hush ye, do not fret ye.
The Black Douglas shall not get ye.” 

to be continued........

Offline panished

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Re: World War One. Gipsy Roll of Honour.
« Reply #181 on: Sunday 05 July 20 12:12 BST (UK) »
page seven

I am writing and leaving out vast amounts of research i hope people can follow what i think is or maybe is going on, Scott changed border songs for there was many types of verses and aires melodys you could say he tryed in his mind to correct them and he collected storys and tales, at lot as todo with the facts about the Norman and Saxons, wait till you see where this story leads

by Walter Scott


Now fitted the halter, now traversed the cart,
And often took leave,----but seemed loath to depart!*

* The motto alludes to the Author returning to the stage
* repeatedly after having taken leave.



The name of Ivanhoe was suggested by an old rhyme. All novelists
have had occasion at some time or other to wish with Falstaff,
that they knew where a commodity of good names was to be had. On
such an occasion the author chanced to call to memory a rhyme
recording three names of the manors forfeited by the ancestor of
the celebrated Hampden, for striking the Black Prince a blow with
his racket, when they quarrelled at tennis:

"Tring, Wing, and Ivanhoe,
For striking of a blow,
Hampden did forego,
And glad he could escape so."

The word suited the author's purpose in two material respects,
---for, first, it had an ancient English sound; and secondly, it
conveyed no indication whatever of the nature of the story. He
presumes to hold this last quality to be of no small importance.
What is called a taking title, serves the direct interest of the
bookseller or publisher, who by this means sometimes sells an
edition while it is yet passing the press.
1st September, 1830.

 I have been reading of the meening 'Freelance'
Freelancing has always been a battle. Literally.
 it is said to meen someone  pursuing a career without making a long-term commitment to one employer.  yet i have read that its original meaning or earliest written evidence comes from Sir Walter Scott's Ivanhoe, in which a lord refers to his paid army of 'free lances, freelance first came into English in the early 1800s, it was used to refer to a medieval mercenary who would fight for whichever nation or person paid them the most. Our earliest written evidence for this use (so far, that is) is in Sir Walter Scott's novel, Ivanhoe, where a feudal lord refers to the paid army he's assembled:

"I offered Richard the service of my Free Lances, and he refused them—I will lead them to Hull, seize on shipping, and embark for Flanders; thanks to the bustling times, a man of action will always find employment".

also it was Scott who made up parts of Robin Hood like the Apple shooting and such, Scott, no one will be able to find him he has secret doors in that make believe castle he built, he was liberal in thinking and had something todo with the Knights Templar, it was said he was not in the Masons but Mason signes are wrote on some Gipsies graves up that way, i can not tell you their names only to say it connects to my findings, i just want people to research themselvs when they read things of the past

to be continued.................

Offline panished

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Re: World War One. Gipsy Roll of Honour.
« Reply #182 on: Sunday 05 July 20 12:59 BST (UK) »
page eight

So now i will show you the link back from the ryme about the black tinkler to the black douglas that was found but the author did not see the connection as i do for all the later writers that i found were not yet born when this next book was wrote, then i will show you how a further link back was found to evan a later time of Richard the first.... Walter Scott will come into that account in the end posts so all will become clear only at the end, try and read all the old books and new books plus articles i have found there is a great wealth of knowledge in them

David MacRitchie 1851-1925


 Page 216-217

 ………. Sir Walter Scott seems also to regard " the good Sir James " as The Black Douglas, whereas we know that no fewer than four of the Douglas earls bore that title, while their very clan name, strictly considered, signifies " the black man." That " a Black Douglas " must at one time have been a term interchangeable with " a black man " or " a gipsy," is indicated also by the rhyme which Scott places in the mouth of the soldier's wife at Roxburgh castle-—

" Hush ye, hush ye, little pet ye,
Hush ye, hush ye, do not fret ye,
The Black Douglas shall not get ye."

This very rhyme is said by Simson to be sung by mothers to their fretful children, at the present day, with this significant variation, that the last line runs— " The black Tinkler winna get ye." Therefore, for this reason also, a " Black Douglas " was only a synonym for a " Moor." And when one or other of the chiefs of this race was styled " The Black Douglas," the article so prefixed was employed exactly as it is yet done in Ireland and in Scotland, to distinguish the head of the clan from the rest of his clansmen, all of whom bear the same tribal name.
The Black-Douglases of history were thus the ancestors of certain families of modern gipsies ; the name of Douglas being, in one of its phases, an equivalent of Tinkler.*
 * It is noteworthy, in this connection, that the Tinklers are referred to "in a charter of William the Lion (1165-1214)." (" Encyc. Brit." 9th edit art. “Gipsies.") 

Page 164

In all the older references to the race, they are spoken of as purely black, not tawny. It is said that Scottish peasant mothers soothe their children with the couplet—

 " Hush nae, hush nae, dinna fret ye ;
The black Tinkler winna get ye "
* Simson's " History," p. 45. This recalls Sir Walter Scott's account of the taking of Roxburgh Castle, and the song of the Englishwoman to her baby—

" Hush ye, hush ye, little pet ye,
Hush ye, hush ye, do not fret ye,
The Black Douglas shall not get ye." And, like the Tinkler, Douglas was himself a black man.
I found this information below contained in a book of poem winners in the year 1840, this now connects the black Douglas ryme of frightening children to the Arab mothers frightening their children.
John Charles conybeare obtained the chancellors medal
at Cambridge university st peters colledge in 1840
for the poem
"Richard the first in palestine"

No more the Arab warrior chides his steed, 
“Is Richard there, why start from yonder reed?”   
Nor Eastern mothers to their infants sing Of Richard,
England's lion-hearted king.
Yet deem not buried in oblivion's gloom,
Idly he sleeps forgotten in the tomb.
This below are the notes written at the end of this poem in the stated book.

"so great the terror which richard inspired, that for many years it was customary among arabs to reprove their horses thus; and their women used to frighten their children with his name. In the time of Bruce, the name Douglas was put to similar use. The following is still preserved".

" Hush ye, hush ye, litle pet ye, hush ye,
        hush ye, do not fret ye,
   the black douglas shall not get ye,"

next i will link Scott to the above, Scott had a extensive collection of books including the times of the crusades, it is wrote it was an Arab writer who first used the words to frighten children, Scott seems to favour the liberal thought of certain writers of the past and had connections to familys like the ones from Roslin that place of high intrige, i think way back at the times of the Crusades this story started, Scott in his mind was thinking about the origin of many things, and to weaving his majik into the narative, no one will ever find Scott, everyone will see through their own eyes, i am just trying to show how if a writer like Simson makes certain comments and you start to think on them, then also i think a person should think on all his words, the same also should be thought of my words

to be continued.............