Hamill Family Portadown

[heywood]

Thanks. Apologies to shanreagh.
You quote 1851 census though, I couldn’t see them and wondered where you have them.
If they married in 1852, they wouldn’t be together in 1851 though.

[mackers]

Thanks. Apologies to shanreagh.
You quote 1851 census though, I couldn’t see them and wondered where you have them.
If they married in 1852, they wouldn’t be together in 1851 though.

Exactly on the date. This was a detail sent to me previous to the latter information. But it might have been a misquote. As I'm sure you know sometimes reports from back in those days where sketchy to say the least, that's why researching this kind of information is hard. But again thank you for your help. Ed

[shanreagh]

Thanks. Apologies to shanreagh.
You quote 1851 census though, I couldn’t see them and wondered where you have them.
If they married in 1852, they wouldn’t be together in 1851 though.

Exactly on the date. This was a detail sent to me previous to the latter information. But it might have been a misquote. As I'm sure you know sometimes reports from back in those days where sketchy to say the least, that's why researching this kind of information is hard. But again thank you for your help. Ed

So it would be useful if you could let us have the earliest date &  where you have found them. So looks like this census detail may be incorrect and we should put it aside for now. 

As found by Heywood this looks like a strong contender for the marriage
10th November 1852 Armagh
Patrick Hamel and Ann Carr
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632474#page/62/mode/1up

ETA Looking at this entry again it looks as if the witnesses were Patricio Hamel and Joanem Carr so they may be siblings or parents?

As regards the dates and ages I would not get too fixated on these.  Illiteracy was common and many did not need nor celebrate their birthdays.  I have seen census details where the people got younger and younger especially if there had been a new marriage between censuses!

[shanreagh]

The townland Breagh has been mentioned.

In Armagh there seem to be three with this name
49950   Breagh   240   Drumcree   Oneilland West   Lurgan   Armagh
49951   Breagh   257   Seagoe   Oneilland East   Lurgan   Armagh
49952   Breagh   355   Tartaraghan   Oneilland West   Lurgan   Armagh
from
https://www.swilson.info/db/townlanddbs.php

NB The third is worded like the mysterious 1851 census? 

I have had a look on Griffiths 1864 for the occupants under the places tab and there are three Breaghs in Co Armagh entered - Drumcree, Tataraghan and Seagoe

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01sn9/

In Seagoe there is a James Kerr, no Hamills. JK leases a house from Anne Jennett.
In Tataraghan there is a Patrick Hamill, Felix Hamill, John Hamill and Daniel Hamill
In Drumcree there are no Hamills or Kerrs/Carrs but there is an Edward McCann leasing a house & garden  from a Robert Kingsborough

I think it could be worthwhile to do some lateral searching to find out all you can about Felix, John and Daniel Hamill. 

[Dundee]

I came across a place in Belfast called the Ulster Historical Foundation. Who were kind enough to give me a look at the details of the marriage. Which stated Teresa's Father and Mother were indeed Patrick and Anne Hamill nee Carr Portadown and that they needed the OK from the priests in Portadown for them to wed.

The document I seen in UHF many years ago looks very suspect now. I believe the UHF was taken over by Ancestry. So that document might still be about.

I think you really need to sort that out.  The church record does not record Ann's maiden surname at all and personally I think that your whole research has been thrown out by the erroneous information that the mother of Teresa born 1840s had the surname CARR/KERR etc.

https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633212#page/35/mode/1up

As far as I can see, the couple who married in 1852 always lived in Armagh while your Teresa said that her family were from Portadown.

Here is the death if a Patrick, residence, Breagh, aged 75 yrs in 1882

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1882/06406/4839833.pdf

There is also this death in 1883 at Portadown for a Patrick with a son named Francis.

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1883/06379/4831047.pdf

Debra 

[shanreagh]

Good find Dundee. 

OP has said that their forebear is a Francis as well. 
As for Edward and Teresa's children they originally had 3 children Patrick Mary and George. but sad to report they all died in Scotland from Whooping cough. But then they had my Grandfather Francis McCann born in Glasgow who they returned to Belfast who survived along with others called George Lizzie and Edward

Possibly Francis was a family name for the Hamill's used by Teresa Hamill McCann for one of her children.

I think perhaps we should look at this Patrick and this Francis that you have found.   Patrick and this Francis lived at Union st Portadown at the time of patrick's death. 
https://www.streetcheck.co.uk/postcode/bt624ad

Just looked at https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/ and aaaaaagh
Patrick & Ann,baker & Kerr all feature in this birth with the parents living in Dawson St Armagh
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1866/03545/2304632.pdf

So looks like we are back in confusion again. 

And for a bit of light relief the blood thirsty McCanns of Portadown
'During the civil war in 1641 Portadown was pillaged by Captain Toole McCann......'

http://www.lurganancestry.com/portadown.htm

[shanreagh]

On 19/4/1884 a 17 year old Francis Hamill travels to the USA on the Republic from Queenstown (Cobh) to New York.  His occupation is Miner. 

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QVSJ-5ZHH

From Dundee's post
There is also this death in 1883 at Portadown for a Patrick with a son named Francis.

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1883/06379/4831047.pdf

Can anyone read the age of Patrick Hamill please?

[heywood]

I think it is 70 yrs.

[Kiltaglassan]

I think it is 70 yrs.

Agree with heywood... 70 yrs (with a squiggly 7)....see also the death of Thomas Buchanan just above, also 70 yrs.