Looking for info regarding James Barr, Dalry

[ColC]

My apologies, as Alexander & Isabella were the only Barr family in Ochiltree in 1901
I made a wrong assumption.

Below were on the 1911 census at Ochiltree

The cert for Isabella states she was the widow of Hamilton Barr, Coal Miner parents Joseph Thorburn and Janet. They were married Paisley in 1885, some children born there but their youngest child was born Ochiltree in 1904

As this was the only Alexander on the 1911 census, I thought he was the husband of Isabella Martin but at a different reference number, not 609/6/17.

ALEXANDER BARR 1911 50 609/ 6/ 16 Ochiltree Ayr. No other Barr's at that reference.

As regards this Alexander Barr, ploughman, married to Isabella Patterson Marshall parents Alexander Barr and unknown mother. I cannot trace him or his marriage in Scotland or Ireland?


Whilst checking the records I came across this death. Daughter of Alexander & Isabella?

ISABELLA MARTIN BARR, age 101 mmn MARTIN
1991 682 / 50 Old Cumnock.

Colin

[dippitybix]

I downloaded the birth certificates for Louisa, William and Robert, on both certificates they have completely different dates for their parents marriage - is this common?

Roberts certificate

February 1881, Dromore

Louisa

31st December 1874 Dromore

When we know Isabella and Alexander married 29th November 1878

Can't make it out on William's certificate have asked SP to re-scan.

I've now got the re-scan of William's birth certificate and it also gives his parents Alexander Barr Ploughman & Isabella Barr nee Martin Married February 1881 Dromore 

[Forfarian]

I've now got the re-scan of William's birth certificate and it also gives his parents Alexander Barr Ploughman & Isabella Barr nee Martin Married February 1881 Dromore 

So Alexander couldn't remember the date when he was married, or he got mixed up, or the registrar wrote it down wrong.

I have some families where every birth certificate gives a different date for the parents' marriage.

As the couple's names and place of marriage match, then the chances are it's the right marriage.

[dippitybix]

I've now got the re-scan of William's birth certificate and it also gives his parents Alexander Barr Ploughman & Isabella Barr nee Martin Married February 1881 Dromore 

So Alexander couldn't remember the date when he was married, or he got mixed up, or the registrar wrote it down wrong.

I have some families where every birth certificate gives a different date for the parents' marriage.

As the couple's names and place of marriage match, then the chances are it's the right marriage.

Thanks, yes that’s what I’m thinking too.

[dippitybix]

Samuel & Sarah.

William 19 Years- Birth of WILLIAM BARR in July 1890 Dromore, Co Down
Lizzie 15 Years – Birth 1892 Kilwinning, Ayrshire mmn Martin?
Sarah 7 Years – Birth 1902 Ardrossan New mmn Martin.
James 3 Years – Birth 1905 Dalry (Ayr) mmn Martin.

I believe Alexander was informally adopted by Sarah's sister below
ALEXANDER BARR mmn MARTIN 1901 Ardrossan New
15/07/1901(Thanks for the birth date)

Alexander & Isabella

Louisa Barr 1886 born Monkton and Prestwick
Isabella Barr 1889 born Maybole
Robert Alexander Barr 1892 born Maybole
William Martin Barr 1895 born Ochiltree

No other birth registrations, and no deaths of Barr children there after 1905.

Alexander Barr senior died 1913 Ochiltree age 60 (1853), as did
Isabella Docherty Barr nee Martin in 1937, if the age of 75 is correct she was 16 at marriage?


There are these two other birth registrations mother MARTIN .

ALEXANDER BARR 1896 Stevenston

BARR MARY 1907 Died 1908 Stevenston

I cannot find Alexander age about 5 on the 1901 census, no death, or possible parents.

Regards Colin

Hi Colin,

A few months later and I've done a bit more digging on the Barr's and Martin's.
I've found out the true identity of the Alexander who we believed (sadly not correct) was unofficially adopted by Sarah Martin's sister, Isabella.

Alexander Barr was born 8th April 1902 in Coylton. I believe this Alexander was the illegitimate son of Jane Ellen Barr, daughter of Isabella and Alexander. There is a corrected entries page on SP regarding the paternity of the child but it badly needs re-scanning which I have requested.

I purchased the 1911 census record for the family, Bella Martin Bar is living with her son William and also Alexander (census states son but this was her grandson) gives birth location as Coylton. In the 1921 census, Alexander is still living with is grandmother.

Isabella died 31st March 1922 and Alexander was the informant and listed correctly as grandson.

Unfortunately I now don't know for 100% sure if Isabella Martin is indeed the sister of Sarah Martin/Barr as she was born approx 1856 I've been unable to find a birth record. Her death certificate states her parents as John Martin and Sarah Martin nee Gray. I've been unable to find a marriage record for a John Martin and Sarah Gray. I suppose her grandson could have not known his great grandparents names so I still think it's highly likely that they are indeed sisters.

Isabella Martin is from Skeagh on her marriage certificate to Alexander Barr and her father is listed as Samuel Martin - same for her sister's marriage to Samuel Barr. I also noted that a James Heylitt is the witness to both marriages, but then he is also a witness at other marriages on the records so not sure if this is a family connection or someone who was an official at the marriage  .

I'm also thinking that Alexander Barr and Samuel Barr are related some how... 

[Kiltaglassan]

I also noted that a James Heylitt is the witness to both marriages, but then he is also a witness at other marriages on the records so not sure if this is a family connection or someone who was an official at the marriage  .

James Hazlett

https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1878/11114/8068485.pdf