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Messages - Acrossthepond

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10
London and Middlesex / Re: The Will of Richard Berens, Esquire Mayfair Queen St.
« on: Friday 01 February 13 22:26 GMT (UK)  »
Possible sighting of John in 1881 in cavalry barracks in Leeds? (Birthplace "St Mary London" could possibly be Richmond - parish church is St Mary Magdalene). RG11/4524/136/14.

Consistent with the horsey theme at least :)

This might have possibilities - I will look into it.

11
London and Middlesex / Re: The Will of Richard Berens, Esquire Mayfair Queen St.
« on: Friday 01 February 13 22:24 GMT (UK)  »
Re your earlier question about the meaning of "in tutors service".  This may refer to her having been a college servant at Oxford.  I think servants would be employed by the college, but individuals would mainly work for the same person while they were in college.

What an interesting answer! That is one thing I've never been able to pinpoint - did she work for him in Oxford or Queens Street?  The Will does not make that clear - it does mention an "Andrew Martin" "if in Tutor's service" as well... but only the two of them have this note beside their names.

12
London and Middlesex / Re: The Will of Richard Berens, Esquire Mayfair Queen St.
« on: Friday 01 February 13 22:01 GMT (UK)  »
The London Metrolpolitan Archives have the records I think, for wandsworth workhouse.
Do you have a copy of Richard Berens will??

Yes, I do have a copy of his will.

13
London and Middlesex / Re: The Will of Richard Berens, Esquire Mayfair Queen St.
« on: Friday 01 February 13 21:21 GMT (UK)  »
It may help if you buy the death cert for Jane Murray, died in Wandsworth in 4 Q 1872.  That should give her status (widow, single, possibly dau of or widow of) and/or her occupation.  This may help to rule this Jane in or out of the picture.

Do you think that because this Jane Murray died at the Workhouse, that they would have had any personal records on her to put on a death certificate?  Does anyone know if I could find Workhouse admission records, etc. for her and where?

14
London and Middlesex / Re: The Will of Richard Berens, Esquire Mayfair Queen St.
« on: Friday 01 February 13 21:18 GMT (UK)  »
It's an odd phrase, but I wonder whether it meant she was in service as a governess?

What happened to Jane later on - presumably she gave birth to a child who was your great grandparent? Can she be found in a later English census to ascertain an approx birthdate, or is there some reason such as emigration which prevents this?

Richard Berens was a bachelor until he died, with no children.

15
London and Middlesex / Re: The Will of Richard Berens, Esquire Mayfair Queen St.
« on: Friday 01 February 13 21:14 GMT (UK)  »
Have you seen this pair?

1871 census: RG10/1146/20/33

11 Wilton St, Portsea, Hampshire

Jane MURRAY Head Wid 53 Cook birthplace Not Known
John do Son Unm 11 Scholar Richmond Surrey


I also saw that a few years ago and ordered her death certificate.  This Jane Murray was 74 when she died in 1892 (in Portsea).  This looked like a good match but John claimed his mother died when he was 12 and he was left an orphan... and a stable boy.

16
London and Middlesex / Re: The Will of Richard Berens, Esquire Mayfair Queen St.
« on: Friday 01 February 13 19:59 GMT (UK)  »
Yes, it should be 19 Queen St. Mayfair.... 
In answer to your 1st question,  I haven't found her in the 1851 or 1861 census as I don't know which Jane she would be... I wondered, if given the fact she worked for a prominent citizen, after Berens' death in 1849 would she have been able to use her reference to work for someone else of the same calibre? 
I know my great grandfather John Murray was born in 1862 in either Richmond or Chertsey, Surrey (depending on the census).  No birth certificate has been found - he claimed his mother died when he was 12 leaving him an orphan and a 'stable boy' - he never mentioned siblings... to be raised by an 'Aunt Ellen' ?...  He never talked about his mother or lack of father.
There is a  Richmond, Surrey parish record I have showing a 'single woman Jane Murray' having a son John Murray born in 1860 but christened 1862 - her last residence 'Aldham Park, Herts'... but the 1861 Aldham Park census doesn't show a Jane Murray, and I don't know if this is them.
 John Murray married Emma Cole in Battersea, Wandsworth 1883.  He finally shows up in a census in 1891 - a Coachman at 16 Compton (?) Mews, Kensington.  He states on his marriage certificate that his father is "John Murray - Butler", but I think he made that up.  He never spoke of a 'father' to his kids except to say once that his father was a 'Scottish Chieftan'!. 
A few days ago I found a burial record for the Wandsworth Union Workhouse showing  "Jane Murray 36 years" dying in 1872 (which would have made John around 12 & would fit with his story), but to think a woman that worked near Buckingham Palace for the uppercrust, would possibly end up in the workhouse is hard to believe...  the other interesting point I have is John was very cultured, played the organ, painted, could read/write, fabulous carpenter and carver, poet and became a well dressed Coachman... we just don't know where or how he learned all this on his own.  It all adds to the mystery and I'm determined to solve it...

17
London and Middlesex / The Will of Richard Berens, Esquire Mayfair Queen St.
« on: Friday 01 February 13 18:20 GMT (UK)  »
Hello. I am at a brick wall with my g-g grandmother Jane Murray. I know nothing about her except that a set of Bibles exist in the family that were given to her in 1849 with the inscription "Given by Henry Berens from the library of her late master Richard Berens in memory of her care & attention toward him. June 22, 1849".  I discovered that Richard Berens of All Souls College Oxford also had a home at 19 Mayfair Queen St. London, and a Will listing Jane Murray as recipient of 50 pounds at his death "if in Tutors service".  Would 'tutors service' reference something other than servant?  Anyhow, would anyone know if there would be household records for staff existing for prominent families that far back, or any other records one could think of that I might be able to gleen ANY information from regarding Jane? Also, I'd be interested in knowing if anyone at that time could find a 'job' in prominent homes, or if Jane would have had to have references to work for the Berens family?  I don't even know her date of birth, so wonder if she could have been a young girl in his service as well as a pupil ('tutors service')?  I have also looked for 19 Mayfair in the 1841 census & don't see her there.  Any help & direction would be very appreciated.  Thank you.

18
Canada Lookup Request / Re: Help with ship record on Ancestry - Schauer
« on: Sunday 04 January 09 01:15 GMT (UK)  »
Thanks so much for checking!  You've saved  me a lot of unnecessary searching.
Carol

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