William CARR

[Dundee]

I thought this would be her:

1868
C2781
page 5223

GATES
Unnamed Female
Mother: Ann GATES

The other entry registered earlier:

1868
C2349
page 5221

GATES
Ann Sabina
Father: John GATES
Mother: Ann TORKINGTON

On the face of it I would say these are two different children however both dates of birth are 18 May.  My conspiracy theory is that the birth father was a man named TORKINGTON, the names reversed to appear legitimate.  There were TORKINGTONs in Queensland.  Again, you would have to consult the original documents.

I am not sure what you mean by there being no trace of a GATES/GREEN marriage, do you mean GATES/CARR?

Queensland
Edward GREEN
Anne Norah GATES
8 Dec 1868
Reg Number: C484
Page Number:    5691

You won't find William CARR on the Royal Dane because as far as I can see the passenger list has not survived apart from some cabin passengers.  

Hopefully Gerry will come along and help us out with this William CARR as I think he has some early Queensland directories that he can check.
Ah, I see he already on the case!! 

Debra 

[SherlockBones]

Couple of good points there Debra. Based on the same birth dates it is more than likely that the two births are one and the same. Although not sure why there would have been two registrations.

So based on the above we have: -

Ann Norah Gates has a child in May 1868 possibly to a John Torkington. [A quick relationship then ensues and 6 months later Ann marries marries [in Dec 1868] to Ed Green.
Something happens with the relationship over a period of 18 months, Ed is either deceased or off the scene,  and Ann then in turns marries Hyam Henry Hart.

Jon

[pwh]

Information that i have just recieved  would seem to indicate that that William
Carr married Margaret Sabina Gates b 12/1845 in St Pancras london. She does
not seem to be with her parents in 1861 and can not be located. My information says
that she did arrive on the Royal Dane with her sister ann Norah. She was
apparantly a widow whose husband  had died a month after the marriage. She  is
supposed to have married William Carr on board the Royal Dane. They
settled in the Gaviel Creek area of Rockhampton. Ann Norahs obituary  says that
William Carr worked at Pattisons slaughteryards at Gaviel Creek.  " Battlers"
article printed in the Rockhampton Morning Bulletin a week after Ann Norah Hart
died says the same. In the article "Battler" refers to William Carr as Bill Carr and
also refers to Ann Norah Hart as Mrs Harry Hart. Harry might have been a nickname
for Henry Hart.This would seem to indicate that Battler  would have known the Harts
and the Carrs. Battler also says that Bill Carr was a butcher in Rockhampton till
he went to Townsville in the1870s and became head of the board of the Townsville
meat works.   
                                          peter

[SherlockBones]

Peter

Marriage in 1865 Pancras, Middlesex, London Q1 Vol 1b Page 119
Death 1865 Liverpool, Lancashire, England Q1 Vol 8b Page 94 [It's the only one that fits if Margaret arrived in Australia in July 1865]
Seems a bit of a stretch to say that Margaret was married in Feb, a widow in March and then remarries in June\July enroute to Australia. Although stranger things have happened!

There does not appear to be a death in Qld for a Margaret Carr with parents Robert and Bridget.
There does not appear to be any children born to William & Margaret Carr in Qld.
There does not appear to be any marriage in Qld for a Margaret Keeling nee Gates

Jon

[Dundee]

Now we are getting somewhere, but a bit of a different story...

Death
Carlton, Victoria
1924
Margt Sabina PHILLIPS

Age:   78
Father:    Robt GATES
Mother:    Annorah BOLAN
#4585

Possibly buried at Fawkner listed as Margaret F.

Marriage
Victoria
1874
Margaret Sabina GATES
William GREENOUGH
#3512

Goodness me 

http://www.rootschat.com/links/0cbr/
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0cbp/
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0cbq/

Debra 

[SherlockBones]

Wow! Good work Debra. Well done! Completly different story.
Long story short: -
Margaret married Joseph Keeling in London and they BOTH arrived in Australia. Joseph was reported as being a BUTCHER in Queensland and that he was already married when he and Margaret married.
Margaret then in turn, married a William Greenough.
William Greenough then remarried to a Letitia Armstrong and is subsequently charged with bigamy as he was still married to Margaret.
Months later Margaret abuses William’s ’current’ wife with insulting language and in turn gives old William a bit of a touch up by ‘pulling his hirsute appendages, breaking his pipe and trampling upon his belltopper’ [Belltopper = Victoria style Top Hat]
Goodness...it’s almost comical if it wasn't so serious.
An interesting read for those that want to have a look at the newspaper articles that Debra has provided the links to.

Jon

[SherlockBones]

Debra

Margaret died as a Phillips? Is ther any trace of the marriage?

Jon

[Dundee]

I wonder if this is the same couple:

http://www.rootschat.com/links/0cbs/

...and the ad
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0cbt/

I am interested in the fact that Margaret was pushing a perambulator, but there is never any mention of children, even in the earlier maintenance case.

There is a possible marriage in NSW, but who knows what name she would have married under:

1887
PHILLIPS    EDWARD H
GREENOUGH    MARGARET
(MOAMA)
#5965

There are no children showing for this couple which is promising as Margaret GATES would have been around 42.

Debra 

[cando]

This thread certainly makes 'interesting' reading   Good detective work Debra

.......Margaret married Joseph Keeling in London and they BOTH arrived in Australia. Joseph was reported as being a BUTCHER in Queensland and that he was already married when he and Margaret married.
Margaret then in turn, married a William Greenough......
Jon

And it would appear Joseph had other partners as well
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0cbw/

Cheers...and keep up the good work
Cando