Roberts Family of Fachwen and Llandeiniolen

[welshpride]

I also noticed Despair that when looking at the tree you mentioned, two of the girls are given birthdates about a week apart from each other.  Quite a feat, to say the least, for the young mother...

I think we must continue to gather all the evidence and cannot rule anything out, including the possibility that the tree I've been consulting may have inaccuracies.  Very little in genealogy is 100% when you get back to a certain time and beyond. 

I will continue to hold with your "summary" of events and use that as the guage by which to compare and dissect other information.  Don't overlook the fact that Huwcyn, last night, quoted a page from a book that I am about to gain possession of which clearly states that John and Jane Daniel's son, John Robert Daniel, was a nephew to Foulk Roberts and Thomas Roberts, which puts Jane in their generation as a first cousin. 

Keep digging, and so shall I.

Regards,

Welshpride

[Huwcyn]

Bear in mind that what we often refer to as 'birth dates' are probably baptism ( often delayed)  dates, so the young mother might not be quite so busy !

[welshpride]

Yesterday I received a copy of a book entitled, "Early History of the Welsh in the Proscairon District of Wisconsin" by Daniel Williams (copyright 1894).

I immediately began reading it, and although I'd heard from others about the Roberts-Daniel relationships discussed within the pages, this was the first time I actually got to see it for myself. 

I cannot tell you how cool it is to actually have documented interviews and commentary attributed to the ancestors I have been seeking information on for over a dozen years.  Before, I had names and dates on a piece of paper, but reading actual quotes and stories told by my great great grandfather John Robert Daniel and others gives life and personality to those names.

As my peers in Wales continue to uncover new names and possible connections to my family tree I can now add some form of verification to what we've been discussing.  While there is much we still do not know or cannot verify, I think it is important that we do not lose sight of what can be fairly relied upon with a good deal of conviction.  That having been said, the pages of the book I've read thus far have these details to share:

Reverend Thomas Hugh Roberts
Reverend Thomas Hugh Roberts (1824-1880) is quoted on page 20 as referring to John Daniel as "my uncle."  It has been repeatedly documented in various biographies and online trees that Thomas Hugh Roberts was the son of Hugh Roberts (1788-1865).

Hugh "Huw" Roberts
Hugh Roberts (1788-1865) is mentioned extensively in this publication.  He gives a personal account of his life in which he states that at the age of 15 his parents moved the family from Braichwen to Blaen Y Cae (this personal account would seem to refute the claims on some trees that he was born at Blaen y Cae).  He further states that his parents joined the congregation at Blaenrug Chapel.  He was wed to Mary Jones, who has been linked (at birth) to Tan-y-Buarth, Llanddeiniolen.  Hugh was about 60 years of age at the time he brought his family to the United States.  The home they left behind on the voyage was recorded as Tan-y-Buarth, Llanddeiniolen.  It has been written in various resources that Hugh Roberts was a relative of Jane Roberts-Daniel.
 

Thomas Robert Roberts
Thomas Robert Roberts (1826-1912) was a younger, half-brother to Hugh Roberts.  While Hugh was a product of the first marriage of Robert Roberts to Mary Williams, Thomas was a product of his second marriage, to Cathrine Foulkes.  In the publication I now have in my possession it is recorded that Thomas Robert Roberts was an uncle to John Robert Daniel, son of John and Jane Daniel.  As Foulk Roberts was Thomas' brother, that would make Foulk an uncle to John Robert Daniel, as well. 

Following these relationships as described, it is also plain to see that Jane Roberts was in fact a first cousin of Foulk and Thomas and Hugh Roberts, meaning she had to have been born to a brother of their father, Robert Roberts (1752-1832).

What has developed here is you can see how the generations stack up, whom is a part of each generation, and how the Daniel and Roberts families are tied to each other, as follows:

Generation 1
Robert Roberts (1752-1832)

Generation 2 (all cousins)
Hugh Roberts (1788-1865) - His son by first wife
Thomas Robert Roberts (1826-1912) - His son by second wife
Foulk Robert Roberts (1820-1908) - His son by second wife
Jane Daniel nee: Roberts (1786-1872) - Niece to Robert Roberts
John Daniel (1791-1859) - Jane's husband, referred to as "uncle" of Thomas Roberts, generation 3

Generation 3
Reverend Thomas Hugh Roberts (1824-1880) - Son of Hugh, referred to John Daniel as "uncle"
Reverend John Robert Daniel (1826-1898) - Son of John and Jane Daniel, referred to Thomas  Roberts of Generation 2 as an uncle

There has been much written about the ancestral relationships and families of these people back in Wales, with many unanswered questions and mysteries yet to be resolved, but regardless, what has emerged to me from the pages of this book is a much clearer understanding of the relationships between these people once they set foot in the United States, and it is clear to me that despite what questions remain about her origins, Jane Roberts was in fact a niece of Robert Roberts, therefore a daughter of one of his brothers, whether that was John Roberts (b. 1765) or whomever.  Taking it one step further, Jane would be the granddaughter of Robert John Evan Roberts and his wife, Jane Jones. 

[despair]

Another interpretation,which has it's drawback(Jane Jones reference) is that Thomas Hugh Roberts calls John Daniel "uncle"because Jane Daniel is his aunt by virtue of being Hugh's sister as per DCB's record of 1785(Robert and Mary of Fachwen).I know you have a death for this Jane in the early 1800s presumably from the same tree as before, which gives 1804.It may be me again but I cannot reconcile that death and,indeed, have a different version of Jane and Hugh's other siblings.Hopefully Huwcyn can cast some light on this Jane?

Regards
Roger

[Huwcyn]

There is a grave at Llanddeiniolen which is marked as being the grave of Jane Roberts , Blaen y Cae , died 25/12/1804. There are a lot of graves associated with the Blaen Y Cae family in the same area.

[despair]

Thanks Huwcyn.After doing a trial of different names,I've concluded that FindMyPast has no transcribed burials for Llanddeiniolen 1793-1812.

Regards
Roger

[welshpride]

The discovery of a grave for that particular Jane Roberts (thanks Huwcyn) would support that my Jane is related to Hugh as a cousin via because one of his uncles is her father.

[welshpride]

THE MYSTERY HAS BEEN SOLVED!!!  THE FATHER OF JANE ROBERTS DANIEL WAS.....

I was researching through some biographies this evening documented in "The Early History of the Welsh in the Proscairon District of Wisconsin" by Daniel Williams (copyright 1894), and came upon the following excerpt from a brief biography of Catharine Foulkes:

"At the end of the 18th century there were two brothers living in Llanddeiniolen, Caernarvonshire - Robert and John Roberts.  The daughter of John was the mother of the Rev. J. R. Daniel.  Robert's children were Hugh Roberts of Proscairon, Wisconsin and Ann, the mother of H. D. Foulkes and Robert Davies of Cambria (Wisconsin).  Many of the descendants have remained in the Old Country.  The great grandson of the above-mentioned Robert Roberts is the Rev. T. Gwynedd Roberts of Rhostryfan, the Secretary of the Northern Gymanfa of the Calvinistic Methodists in Wales.  The wife of the above-mentioned Robert Roberts died, and he married for a second time to Catrin Ffowc...She died on May 15, 1871 at the age of 83."

I'm not sure how this stacks up to the various public trees out there regarding the Roberts family, which I've been consulting, but THIS, THIS is the smoking gun I have been searching for with all of your help.  So after all the thoughts and theories it turns out very simply, John Roberts was the brother of Robert Roberts, and the father of Jane Roberts, who gave birth to John Robert Daniel.

Having this information has made this lengthy effort all the more gratifying, but there is still much to try and figure out.  For instance, no mention is made of Jane Roberts' mother.  I also would like to continue to try and verify that the generations which precede John Roberts are in fact the correct ancestors (i.e. - Robert John Evan Roberts).  For now though, this is cause for celebration.

Thank you for your continued contributions to this cause.

Welshpride!

[welshpride]

There is still much to do reference the Roberts family of Llanddeiniolen and Llanfaglan.  I have been accumulating dates and data regarding the descendants of Robert Jones (otherwise known as Robert John Evan Roberts).  I will have an updated list in the near future.  For now, for those who have been assisting me, I wanted to note this reference to the inhabitants of the abode of interest for this family:
 
I was browsing the baptism and church records and happened across this entry: Robert, the son of John Williams, farmer of Tyddyn Eiddaw and Elin Lloyd his wife was baptized January 30th. This was in 1762, a time in the midst of a twenty year period when the Roberts were living at the abode known as Tyddyn Ruffydd (or whatever it was called).