Author Topic: Help reading/translating this welsh pedigree in the Welsh Language  (Read 5221 times)

Offline despair

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Re: Help reading/translating this welsh pedigree in the Welsh Language
« Reply #9 on: Tuesday 10 November 15 10:21 GMT (UK) »
I am trying to distinguish possible Ty Ucha(f)s - a very common name.

Ty Ucha,Tyfos is likely to be the one close to Llandrillo as these properties form a sort of arc near there

Tyfos,Hendwr,Ty Uchaf,Moel is y Coedwig,Llechwedd,Garthian


However,there is a Ty Ucha,close to Plas Adda,which is more likely to be described as Gwyddelwern.
It feels like your various threads are in here somewhere.

Regards
Roger

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Offline jones9

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Re: Help reading/translating this welsh pedigree in the Welsh Language
« Reply #10 on: Tuesday 10 November 15 17:41 GMT (UK) »
The concentration of these properties makes this likely.

One very significant piece of information I had forgot to mention is that towards the end of the will of John Jones (d. 1705) he mentions 'my nephew David Lloyd, Esquire' - the only such person in Llandrillo at that time was David Lloyd of Hendwr, who was a grandson of Nathaniel Jones, and inherited the Hendwr estate after both Nathaniel and Maurice Jones, his only son, died within the same year.

David Lloyd was born in 1668 and was the son of Susannah Jones (Nathaniel's daughter) and Thomas Lloyd, Tyfos - I have been unable to locate how exactly John Jones is his uncle!!


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Offline despair

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Re: Help reading/translating this welsh pedigree in the Welsh Language
« Reply #11 on: Tuesday 10 November 15 22:00 GMT (UK) »
Perhaps Mary Powell is aka Mary ap Howell(Jones?)

Regards
Roger

Offline despair

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Re: Help reading/translating this welsh pedigree in the Welsh Language
« Reply #12 on: Tuesday 10 November 15 22:11 GMT (UK) »
Mary Powell is given as of Garthiaen in her will of 1681.Phillippe Jones,will of 1739,is also of Garthiaen.Isn't he the son of John Jones(1705)?

Regards
Roger

Offline jones9

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Re: Help reading/translating this welsh pedigree in the Welsh Language
« Reply #13 on: Tuesday 10 November 15 22:22 GMT (UK) »
Roger,

You are quite correct - Having looked at this again, I now think that Mary Powell must be John Jones' mother (his nephew is an Evan Ellis and an Evan Ellis is the son of Martha Jones, John's sister from Mary Powell's will). I wonder what her husband's name was?

Foulk Morgan d.1693 was of course of Garthian also, so I wondered if there was a further connecton here. He mentions in his will John Lloyd of Cilan, with sons Foulke Lloyd and John Lloyd - their mother was Mary Jones, daughter of Gabriel Jones and brother to Watkin Jones. The names here are familiar as again Mary Powell has a grandson Watkin, though the parish records indicate this is a different man, son of Henry Jones and Jannet Wynn.

Offline jones9

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Re: Help reading/translating this welsh pedigree in the Welsh Language
« Reply #14 on: Tuesday 10 November 15 22:27 GMT (UK) »
I have yet to look at Philip's will, but in the parish registers, the only burial for Philip Jones around 1739 in Llandrillo is 'Philip s/o John Evan Harry, Garthian' - this seems unusual as I thought father's name was only given on infant children....though if it is him then the names would make sense (John Jones' eldest son was Evan though died in infancy)

Offline jones9

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Re: Help reading/translating this welsh pedigree in the Welsh Language
« Reply #15 on: Tuesday 10 November 15 23:09 GMT (UK) »
The last was posted in haste and have since found that it is indeed an unrelated burial.

Maurice Jones, Llandrillo, is mentioned in connection with John Ffoulkes, Cilan, in several documents at the NLW, a few of which mention Garthiaen (e.g. fine levied 27 August 1649)

Offline despair

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Re: Help reading/translating this welsh pedigree in the Welsh Language
« Reply #16 on: Tuesday 10 November 15 23:43 GMT (UK) »
A quick reading of the will of Phillippe(sic) shows he is the correct person naming brother Thomas and sisters Judith and Allis.His wife I think is Elizabeth Morris and he names a brother in law William David.I think there was a William David named in the John Jones(1705) will

Regards
Roger

Offline jones9

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Re: Help reading/translating this welsh pedigree in the Welsh Language
« Reply #17 on: Wednesday 11 November 15 08:20 GMT (UK) »
William David was Alice/Ales's husband.

I notice that Philip Jones' will mentions that he is owed money from the Hendwr estate which makes John Jones being Nathaniel's nephew more likely!