Author Topic: What happened to Mary Ann Sumner after 1851?  (Read 2817 times)

Offline LizzieL

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Re: What happened to Mary Ann Sumner after 1851?
« Reply #18 on: Saturday 08 September 18 13:42 BST (UK) »
Austin Sumner baptised in BS on 14 sep 1853 s/o James and Elizabeth. father occ fishmonger. If it's same Austin he would be 5 or 6

added
 just found image - he is 6

so was James' 2nd wife Elizabeth Giffin or has the forename of 3rd wife been recorded on baptism record?
Berks / Oxon: Eltham, Annetts, Wiltshire (surname not county), Hawkins, Pembroke, Partridge
Dorset / Hants: Derham, Stride, Purkiss, Scott, Sibley
Yorkshire: Pottage, Carr, Blackburn, Depledge
Sussex: Goodyer, Christopher, Trevatt
Jersey: Fowler, Huelin, Scott
Essex/Herts: Livermore, Holgate, Law, Day, Myson, Boyton
Norfolk/Suffolk: Stone, Alexander, Tipple, Ingate

Offline LizzieL

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Re: What happened to Mary Ann Sumner after 1851?
« Reply #19 on: Saturday 08 September 18 13:49 BST (UK) »
just noted two other children of James and Elizabeth baptised on same day, no ages given and they aren't on 1851 census so they would be Elizabeth Ive's children.
Berks / Oxon: Eltham, Annetts, Wiltshire (surname not county), Hawkins, Pembroke, Partridge
Dorset / Hants: Derham, Stride, Purkiss, Scott, Sibley
Yorkshire: Pottage, Carr, Blackburn, Depledge
Sussex: Goodyer, Christopher, Trevatt
Jersey: Fowler, Huelin, Scott
Essex/Herts: Livermore, Holgate, Law, Day, Myson, Boyton
Norfolk/Suffolk: Stone, Alexander, Tipple, Ingate

Offline LizzieL

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Re: What happened to Mary Ann Sumner after 1851?
« Reply #20 on: Saturday 08 September 18 13:54 BST (UK) »
Found Harriet Sumner mmn Giffin born and died Q3 1848. Death of Elizabeth Sumner age 34 same quarter, reference one digit different from Harriet. So it is looking like it was Elizabeth Giffin
Berks / Oxon: Eltham, Annetts, Wiltshire (surname not county), Hawkins, Pembroke, Partridge
Dorset / Hants: Derham, Stride, Purkiss, Scott, Sibley
Yorkshire: Pottage, Carr, Blackburn, Depledge
Sussex: Goodyer, Christopher, Trevatt
Jersey: Fowler, Huelin, Scott
Essex/Herts: Livermore, Holgate, Law, Day, Myson, Boyton
Norfolk/Suffolk: Stone, Alexander, Tipple, Ingate


Offline LizzieL

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Re: What happened to Mary Ann Sumner after 1851?
« Reply #21 on: Saturday 08 September 18 14:02 BST (UK) »
Harriet buried 15 Aug and Elizabeth on 29 Aug at St Michaels. BS

Berks / Oxon: Eltham, Annetts, Wiltshire (surname not county), Hawkins, Pembroke, Partridge
Dorset / Hants: Derham, Stride, Purkiss, Scott, Sibley
Yorkshire: Pottage, Carr, Blackburn, Depledge
Sussex: Goodyer, Christopher, Trevatt
Jersey: Fowler, Huelin, Scott
Essex/Herts: Livermore, Holgate, Law, Day, Myson, Boyton
Norfolk/Suffolk: Stone, Alexander, Tipple, Ingate

Online heywood

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Re: What happened to Mary Ann Sumner after 1851?
« Reply #22 on: Saturday 08 September 18 14:11 BST (UK) »
 :-\

1842 marriage West Ham has Elizabeth Giffen and James Sumner on same page. No idea if they were spouses.
Does this fit with your timeline?

There is an 1840, Bishops Stortford marriage with Elizabeth Giffen amongst spouses - so she would have a married name if she were to later marry James.

And another in BS in 1842  ::)
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Offline LizzieL

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Re: What happened to Mary Ann Sumner after 1851?
« Reply #23 on: Saturday 08 September 18 14:27 BST (UK) »
His first wife died in February 1842, so the West Ham one is a possibility - a bit quick though. But first Sumner child with mmn Giffin ref in Q2 1843, so it looks likely. The Livermores have form for nipping down to north London for a quick and quiet marriage, perhaps it rubbed of Ann Livermore's widower
Berks / Oxon: Eltham, Annetts, Wiltshire (surname not county), Hawkins, Pembroke, Partridge
Dorset / Hants: Derham, Stride, Purkiss, Scott, Sibley
Yorkshire: Pottage, Carr, Blackburn, Depledge
Sussex: Goodyer, Christopher, Trevatt
Jersey: Fowler, Huelin, Scott
Essex/Herts: Livermore, Holgate, Law, Day, Myson, Boyton
Norfolk/Suffolk: Stone, Alexander, Tipple, Ingate

Online heywood

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Re: What happened to Mary Ann Sumner after 1851?
« Reply #24 on: Saturday 08 September 18 14:32 BST (UK) »
According to published trees the other spouses married each other so James and Elizabeth seem to be a couple in West Ham - whether yours or not is a different matter.
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Offline LizzieL

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Re: What happened to Mary Ann Sumner after 1851?
« Reply #25 on: Saturday 08 September 18 15:27 BST (UK) »
Given that the name combinations are not very common, I think they must be mine. Maybe they went away from home because he was marrying so soon after Ann's death. This part was just an aside, I was most interested in tracking Ann Livermore's daughter Mary Ann. She was left 50 in 1846 by her maternal grandfather. As she was only 10 then, it was possibly held in trust for her until she came of age or maybe until she married. But no mention was made of that in the will.
Berks / Oxon: Eltham, Annetts, Wiltshire (surname not county), Hawkins, Pembroke, Partridge
Dorset / Hants: Derham, Stride, Purkiss, Scott, Sibley
Yorkshire: Pottage, Carr, Blackburn, Depledge
Sussex: Goodyer, Christopher, Trevatt
Jersey: Fowler, Huelin, Scott
Essex/Herts: Livermore, Holgate, Law, Day, Myson, Boyton
Norfolk/Suffolk: Stone, Alexander, Tipple, Ingate

Offline LizzieL

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Re: What happened to Mary Ann Sumner after 1851?
« Reply #26 on: Saturday 08 September 18 15:52 BST (UK) »
Found the marriage record in Woodford, obvious place when you head south out of BS and keep off the M11. It says they were both of Woodford. James was widower, father James publican. She's a spinster father Benjamin Giffin, gardener. Witnesses Mary Giffin and William Sumner
Berks / Oxon: Eltham, Annetts, Wiltshire (surname not county), Hawkins, Pembroke, Partridge
Dorset / Hants: Derham, Stride, Purkiss, Scott, Sibley
Yorkshire: Pottage, Carr, Blackburn, Depledge
Sussex: Goodyer, Christopher, Trevatt
Jersey: Fowler, Huelin, Scott
Essex/Herts: Livermore, Holgate, Law, Day, Myson, Boyton
Norfolk/Suffolk: Stone, Alexander, Tipple, Ingate