Author Topic: Ure Beatrice Ward, left Australia 1922 for London  (Read 3687 times)

Offline sugarfizzle

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Re: Ure Beatrice Ward, left Australia 1922 for London
« Reply #81 on: Thursday 28 May 20 04:24 BST (UK) »
Sue, You may well be right that Ure didn't leave England, all the evidence appears to point that way. I have emailed Bob, asked him if his grandfather told him that she came to Australia (likely to be true), if his father told him ( less likely but still a possibility), or whether it was inferred from the shipping records (least likely to be correct)
Regards Margaret

Reply from Bob
His grandfather kept a lot of things secret, told his father that Ure died in childbirth. The first Bob knew about them coming to Australia was the shipping documents.

Looking highly likely that someone else went to Australia with Alfred Ward. But would have to be on a forged passport, a highly risky thing to do, perhaps. Though less checks than these days, probably.

Yonge Park means nothing at this stage, 1921 census might help with that.

Regards Margaret

STEER, mainly Surrey, Kent; PINNOCKS/HAINES, Gosport, Hants; BARKER, mainly Broadwater, Sussex; Gosport, Hampshire; LAVERSUCH, Micheldever, Hampshire; WESTALL, London, Reading, Berks; HYDE, Croydon, Surrey; BRIGDEN, Hadlow, Kent and London; TUTHILL/STEPHENS, London
WILKINSON, Leeds, Yorkshire and Liverpool; WILLIAMSON, Liverpool; BEARE, Yeovil, Somerset; ALLEN, Kent and London; GORST, Liverpool; HOYLE, mainly Leeds, Yorkshire

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Offline majm

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Re: Ure Beatrice Ward, left Australia 1922 for London
« Reply #82 on: Thursday 28 May 20 04:36 BST (UK) »
I wonder if there was just the one passport, likely just in his name, giving his status as married, and noting his police career and his WWI service ...  rather than three separate passports ...

JM
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Offline sparrett

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Re: Ure Beatrice Ward, left Australia 1922 for London
« Reply #83 on: Thursday 28 May 20 06:06 BST (UK) »
I'm sure all would agree that Edward/Alfred WARD was a manipulator of systems who had an easy and persuasive flow of talk.

 It may have been Ure's passport used for the woman (and a bit more hair dye as needed!!) -edit- plus a little fast talking ;D

I have had a search of Yonge Park Finsbury Park.

Not very much help. The roll was compiled in Autumn of 1922

1922 at 22 Yonge Park
FURNACE, Sydney 
FURNACE Annie.
FURNACE, Albert William
RUSTON, Edwin
RUSTON, Lena

1919 22 Yonge Park
FURNACE Annie.
FURNACE, Albert William
FURNACE, Samuel James

ADDING FYI.
Nobody named WARD registered to vote address Yonge Park in 1919 or autumn 1922
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Offline sparrett

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Re: Ure Beatrice Ward, left Australia 1922 for London
« Reply #84 on: Thursday 28 May 20 06:17 BST (UK) »
I wonder if there was just the one passport, likely just in his name, giving his status as married, and noting his police career and his WWI service ...  rather than three separate passports ...

JM

That is an interesting possibility. Were passports a new thing for British subjects to a British Dominions? Were they brought in just after WW1?

Sue
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Offline wivenhoe

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Re: Ure Beatrice Ward, left Australia 1922 for London
« Reply #85 on: Thursday 28 May 20 06:45 BST (UK) »
"....Reply from Bob
(Bob's)  grandfather, (Edward Steven Alfred WARD)  kept a lot of things secret.....

(Edward Steven Alfred WARD) told (Bob's) father that Ure died in childbirth.

The first Bob knew about them coming to Australia was the shipping documents".

Bob did not hear any accent in his grandfather, Edward WARD?

Bob had heard the name Ure from his father.....or.......no one had heard of this name until researching this family?

Edward Steven Alfred WARD told his son Steven that Steven's mother was named Ure?.... and she had died in childbirth.

Or...did he just say that Steven's mother had died.........possibly the woman that we are thinking might have travelled to Australia with Edward and son Steven....this woman having died or parted company with Edward WARD in Australia?

Offline mckha489

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Re: Ure Beatrice Ward, left Australia 1922 for London
« Reply #86 on: Thursday 28 May 20 06:54 BST (UK) »
I wonder if there was just the one passport, likely just in his name, giving his status as married, and noting his police career and his WWI service ...  rather than three separate passports ...

JM

That is an interesting possibility. Were passports a new thing for British subjects to a British Dominions? Were they brought in just after WW1?

Sue

It wouldn’t surprise me to know that wives were just added onto their husbands.
I just pulled out my mother’s from 1957.  She has her own, but we  children are just written on it in ink. 
Side tracked to a friend’s very interesting Norfolk families. MORGAN, PRATT, HORNOR, SUCKLING, GLEANE etc. And in London DOWNES, du CROZ, MORGAN (same MORGANs as the Norwich lot)

Offline judb

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Re: Ure Beatrice Ward, left Australia 1922 for London
« Reply #87 on: Thursday 28 May 20 07:28 BST (UK) »
Wikipedia has this information re British passports
Passport booklets (1921–1993)
As with many contemporary travel documents worldwide, details were handwritten into the passport and (as of 1955) included: number, holder's name, "accompanied by his wife" and her maiden name, "and" (number) "children", national status. For both bearer and wife: profession, place and date of birth, country of residence, height, eye and hair colour, special peculiarities, signature and photograph. Names, birth dates, and sexes of children, list of countries for which valid, issue place and date, expiry date, a page for renewals and, at the back, details of the amount of foreign exchange for travel expenses (a limited amount of sterling, typically £50 but increasing with inflation, could be taken out of the country).[25]
If details and photograph of a man's wife and details of children were entered (this was not compulsory), the passport could be used by the bearer, wife, and children under 16, if together; separate passports were required for the wife or children to travel independently.


I am 99% sure that my children did not have separate passports in 1969 and possibly 1974.  I think they travelled on my husband's UK passport.

Photographs, if used, did not have very strict regulation as they do currently.  I have seen a passport which used the person's photo which had been cut out of a family group photo.

So there may have been no need for "Ure Beatrice WARD" (or whoever she was!) to have a photo in the passport.

Judith

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"Time present and time past are both perhaps present in time future..." T S Eliot

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Offline sparrett

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Re: Ure Beatrice Ward, left Australia 1922 for London
« Reply #88 on: Thursday 28 May 20 07:59 BST (UK) »
Hi Judith,
That makes it clear that the speculation I put forward in Reply #48 is possible.

I would say for a personality like Edward/Alfred, the presentation of acceptable passport documentation for the woman accompanying him would be no problem.

As he was already married to Ure it would be an easy matter to 'document ' a departure for Australia as a couple with their young son. No bigamy on anyone's part would come to light, especially with his name change after arrival!


 Sue
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Online ShaunJ

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Re: Ure Beatrice Ward, left Australia 1922 for London
« Reply #89 on: Thursday 28 May 20 09:12 BST (UK) »
Quote
Gloucester Journal, Saturday May 12, 1917 Volume CXCVI,  Issue 10154, p. 6 Article.
The British Casualties.
The Gloucesters' Losses.
.....  (many .... paragraphs  :'( of names of the fallen and the wounded)
Thursday night's casualty lists contained the names of 217 officers (48 dead) and 4,308 rank and file (1,293 dead).  The latter included the following:- Died of wounds : Gloucester Regt., 203593 J. Apperley, Hereford. ....

So it is possible that Alfred's sister was given unofficial information about the Gloucester soldier's death as though it was Alfred rather than J Apperley.

No that doesn't work. 203593 was Ward's RAF number, allocated to him when the RAF was formed in April 1918. In 1917 he was in the RNAS, number F3593.
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