Author Topic: Mary Cave ....a puzzle  (Read 598 times)

Offline chrissiecruiser

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Mary Cave ....a puzzle
« on: Sunday 02 January 22 05:25 GMT (UK) »
Hi to you all,

I have my Great Grand Aunt, Mary Cave born 29th January 1831.... Stoke sub Hamden, Somerset, England.

Most of the family including Mary sailed to Australia on the "Duke of Bronte", arriving in Adelaide on 12th September 1849.

She met David Thomas esq on board and perhaps were a little indiscreet as the couple were married 24th September 1849 at Holy Trinity Church, Adelaide. (Only 12 days after arrival) She was 18yo and he 17yo.

They had 2 children, Mary Ellen Cave Thomas, b.1851 and Francis Henry Thomas, b.1852

Then Mary married John Beaton Terrell on the 20th January 1855. They had 1 son, Walter Clarke Terrell, b. 1866.

My problem is this....... The Register Marriage Announcement of Mary and John Terrell says Mary was "relict" of David Thomas. Does this not mean he was deceased?

I have him as dying at Redruth, Burra, South Australia in 1861. This is a long way from Adelaide.

I have a tree on An***try and this is one little thing bugging me.
It is possible that they drifted apart, he to Burra and she onto John Terrell. The divorce laws in the 1850's were murky and women could not obtain one.     She came from a large, successful family and her father may have had it quietly hidden.

Thankyou for reading,
Chris
Berg - Uppsala, Sweden
Bissett - Scotland
Butler - Yorkshire
Butt - Dorset
Butterworth - Yorkshire
Cave - Somerset
Darby - Somerset
Grierson - Scotland
Kruger/Krueger - Prussia, Germany
Lecher - Cottbus, Brandenburg, Germany
Levick - Nottinghamshire, UK
Molde - Schleswig-Holstein, Denmark/Germany
Oram - Wiltshire & Somerset, UK
Randell - Devon, UK
Savren - Dorset, UK
Weilbach - Denmark & South Africa
Williams - Cornwall, UK

Offline judb

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Re: Mary Cave ....a puzzle
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 02 January 22 05:52 GMT (UK) »
"Relict" means "widow' so either Mary thought he was dead or, if you have the correct death date for him, she was knowingly committing bigamy.

Judith
DYER - Wilts, London, Somerset, MIDLANE - Hants, Wilts, SONE - Hants, WRIGHT - London, Hants, SEAGER - Deptford, DWYER, FERGUSON - Victoria, MASON - Woodford Vic, BALLARD - South Wales, GOULDBY - Lowestoft
"Time present and time past are both perhaps present in time future..." T S Eliot

UK Census information Crown Copyrightt, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline chrissiecruiser

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Re: Mary Cave ....a puzzle
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 02 January 22 05:55 GMT (UK) »
Thanks Judith,
Am still looking for anything that relates to David Thomas about his death but so far, no luck.
He would have had to pass between 1851/2-1854/5

Chris
Berg - Uppsala, Sweden
Bissett - Scotland
Butler - Yorkshire
Butt - Dorset
Butterworth - Yorkshire
Cave - Somerset
Darby - Somerset
Grierson - Scotland
Kruger/Krueger - Prussia, Germany
Lecher - Cottbus, Brandenburg, Germany
Levick - Nottinghamshire, UK
Molde - Schleswig-Holstein, Denmark/Germany
Oram - Wiltshire & Somerset, UK
Randell - Devon, UK
Savren - Dorset, UK
Weilbach - Denmark & South Africa
Williams - Cornwall, UK


Offline judb

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Re: Mary Cave ....a puzzle
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 02 January 22 06:03 GMT (UK) »
I notice that John Beaton TERRELL was resident at Stoke-sub-Hamden in 1851, so did Mary and John know each other back in England?

Judith

(My niece lives in Stoke- gorgeous part of England)
DYER - Wilts, London, Somerset, MIDLANE - Hants, Wilts, SONE - Hants, WRIGHT - London, Hants, SEAGER - Deptford, DWYER, FERGUSON - Victoria, MASON - Woodford Vic, BALLARD - South Wales, GOULDBY - Lowestoft
"Time present and time past are both perhaps present in time future..." T S Eliot

UK Census information Crown Copyrightt, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline chrissiecruiser

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Re: Mary Cave ....a puzzle
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 02 January 22 06:18 GMT (UK) »
Good point Judith!
Thankyou.

Now to do a bit more on his emigration.
They would have done, surely?
The family farmed and lived at "The Priory".
Berg - Uppsala, Sweden
Bissett - Scotland
Butler - Yorkshire
Butt - Dorset
Butterworth - Yorkshire
Cave - Somerset
Darby - Somerset
Grierson - Scotland
Kruger/Krueger - Prussia, Germany
Lecher - Cottbus, Brandenburg, Germany
Levick - Nottinghamshire, UK
Molde - Schleswig-Holstein, Denmark/Germany
Oram - Wiltshire & Somerset, UK
Randell - Devon, UK
Savren - Dorset, UK
Weilbach - Denmark & South Africa
Williams - Cornwall, UK

Offline wivenhoe

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Re: Mary Cave ....a puzzle
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 02 January 22 06:55 GMT (UK) »


"The family farmed and lived at "The Priory".

Where is The Priory?

What occupation do you have for David THOMAS?

What age do you have for John Beaton TERRELL?

Offline sparrett

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Re: Mary Cave ....a puzzle
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 02 January 22 07:08 GMT (UK) »
The announcement of the marriage describes him as Esq and a merchant.
This strikes me as an unlikely description for a 17 year old youth.

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/71624752


The Biographical Index of South Australians gives this
THOMAS David
b.1823. Oswaldsey England. Arrived 1849 Duke of Bronte. Occ. Daper. Residence Adelaide. Religion Protestant.  Married by 1853.

Did you think there were others of the THOMAS family on the voyage?
Siblings, parents?

Sue
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline wivenhoe

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Re: Mary Cave ....a puzzle
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 02 January 22 07:19 GMT (UK) »


"She came from a large, successful family and her father may have had it quietly hidden."

Where was the large successful family when Mary CAVE was in South Australia in the early 1850s?

Where any of them in South Australia?

Offline judb

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Re: Mary Cave ....a puzzle
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 02 January 22 07:20 GMT (UK) »
 :-\
Quite a lot of differing information on various sites for the passenger list for the Duke of Bronte
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/195938439 13 September 1849.
I see Charles, Susan, Sarah, Ann, Mary, Martha, Jane, Lucy, and John Cave  on the passenger list of the Duke of Bronte but I am not seeing a David Thomas; i could easily have missed him. (There's  David, Thomas, Frederick Waren?, but the way the commas are inserted that would seem to me to be three males with surname Waren? - could easily be a mistake)

However this article does show a surname Thomas,
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/206981148

And this one seems not to show the Cave family but does have  David Thomas with no comma!
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/50245356

I am somewhat amused at the description of David Thomas, apparently a 17yearold draper,  as 'Esq, merchant, of Southampton'  in the newspaper report of the marriage of David and Mary.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/71624752,
Newspaper: South Australian, Tue 25 Sep 1849
Yesterday, at Trinity Church, by the very Rev. the Dean of Adelaide, David Thomas, Esq., merchant, late of Southampton, to Mary, third daughter of Thomas Cave, Esq., Stoke Parsonage, Somersetshire.
This is quite a high-status occasion.
As there was a newspaper announcement for the Terrell marriage, which included Mary's father's name and mention of David Thomas it would seem likely that there was a firm belief that David Thomas was deceased.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/71624752  -  South Australian Register, Mon 22 Jan 1855
MARRIED.
On the 20th inst., at St. Mary's, Sturt, by the Rev. R. Strong, Mr. John B. Terrell to Mary, relict of the late Mr. David Thomas, and fourth daughter of the late Charles Cave, Esq., of Stoke Parsonage, Somersetshire.


Judith





DYER - Wilts, London, Somerset, MIDLANE - Hants, Wilts, SONE - Hants, WRIGHT - London, Hants, SEAGER - Deptford, DWYER, FERGUSON - Victoria, MASON - Woodford Vic, BALLARD - South Wales, GOULDBY - Lowestoft
"Time present and time past are both perhaps present in time future..." T S Eliot

UK Census information Crown Copyrightt, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk